Timing Chain Hours?

doobop101 · Post by **doobop101** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:23 pm

I recently took in my 69 2000 to have the timing chains replaced and they also replaced the rod bearings and valve seats. All parts were bought by me .
How many hours do you think is realistic for him to charge me ?
He never made any contact to me as far as any additional work than the chian itself but we knew there would be mininmal stuff such as the head resurfacing...He says that he has tallyed up 15 hrs..I cannot believe that can be an accurate time ..can anyone give me more of a realistic time so that I may question him tomorrow..I took the car to him because the scope of work was beyond my means but from what I understand from what I do know is that I think I am getting reamed.
Please shed some light for me ?? Is there a flatbook rate somewhere?

Post by **spl310** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:22 pm

The Rallye tech insert had some times listed in it. For the timing set (including head removal) it quotes 6.2 hours. The valve guide seals would not be very long. I assume that it was seals and not seats.
If you did not agree to him doing the rod bearings, it sounds like he donated some time to you.

Now, these times are based on a NEW engine - not a 40 year old rusted bolts, PO modified thing, so the times may vary. I would guess an additional hour or so for the valve guide seals. If your engine was a stock, well maintained version, then the times should be close to realistic.

If they replaced the valve SEATS, then they did a lot more work. I think that you need to have a heart to heart with this guy. In Florida, the shops are required to give you a written estimate and to call if the total will exceed that estimate by more than 10%...

Minh · Post by **Minh** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:33 pm

Not to mention, if the guy is unfamiliar with the motor it will take a little longer since he would probably referencing some manual the whole time.

Did provide any extra duties like shine job (aka degrease, paintwork, etc...)?

doobop101 · Post by **doobop101** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 11:27 pm

He wasnt too familiar with the U20. No, he didnt do any spit shining or such but went on and on how he did replace the bolts that had stacked washers on them on the timing cover(which I did appreciate but did not ask for..They had the car for a month, 1 week waiting for additional parts and I believe they did a very thorough job..but no phone calls and no updated tally on anything.
Now I find myself questioning how 15 hrs were racked up.
I had everything externally broke loose for them other than taking off the head and beyond just so the job would be easier and done sooner without leaving a bunch of stuff off for them to figure out.
Instead of learning how to do it myself, seems as if I am learning a valuable lesson in the legalities of auto mechanics101

Marky510 · Post by **Marky510** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 12:31 am

I'm a shop owner here in Southern California and I think nationwide, it's as Sid stated, the shop needs to adhere to the estimated amount. If the shop deems it necessary for more work/parts or whatever, by law, the shop HAS to contact you for authorization. On top of that the shop MUST document time called, number called, person called (that person must be the owner of the vehicle) AND the additional authorized amount. They are not supposed perform any additional work without prior consent.

If the shop did not do any of this, then when push comes to shove, the customer is only obligated to pay the estimated amount. All of the documentation that is required is to protect the shop itself in case there is a problem such as in your case. All of the laws in place for shops have always given the customer the upper hand in disputes (protect the consumer!)

Just for a reference (and I've always been on the cheaper side when I charge customers) If you brought that job to my shop
To do the rod bearings, timing chain and R&R the head I would estimate about 12 hours labor. I sublet head work out to the local machine shop, but they would anywhere from $250-@350 for the re-surface, valves seats and valve job.

If he's doing in-house cylinder head work then it's probably not an unreasonable to get 15hours of labor, but he didn't get it authorized. So as Sid mentioned, have a heart to heart with him and see where it leads.

If it does get ugly then you can go to your State Consumer Affairs site and get info about getting in touch with the Automotive Governing body (in California it's the Bureau of Automotive Repair) ane they can step in if necessary.

Ok, that's enough for now.
(Mark steps down off his soapbox)

Mark

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 1:22 am

Now the legal junk from the customer's point of view......you said that you provided all the parts, which I will assume included the rod bearings and valve seals. If this is true, it will be reasonable to think that you wanted these to be part of the job to be done on the car. And if that is the case, the shop does not have to call you to get authorization to perform a job that you wanted done.

Now as to the time that the car was there, the customer should follow up also on the job, specially when a reasonable time for the job's completion approaches.

I am only pointing out these based on the assumptions that I made above, and are not intended to point any fingers, just to add from the perspective of "the other side to the story".

So PLEASE!! don't take my words as smart a** remarks or as taking any sides, it is simply an additional possibility , and an opportunity to predict what the shop people might try to claim in their defense........an that way you can be prepared to beat them in their own game!

doobop101 · Post by **doobop101** » Fri Apr 16, 2004 9:59 am

thanks for the responses I dont want to cheat the guy outta what is do him but I think he at least owed me the courtesy of letting me know of when things started to add up,,I guess I will just have to see if we can resolve some of this today when I am supposed to pick it up,,,I just wish it was going to be as happy of reunion that I was waiting for