Frame Swapping

[millertime]

Just a quick question: Are all frames interchangable, meaniing can I put a 70 frame on a 67 body and if so are there any advantages or disadvantages to doing this swap.
Side note: Vin matching not important as we are doing a SR20 drop in.

[Minh]

The frame itself, not really other than rust.

I think that matters is the stuff that attaches to the frame; yes, like the steering assembly, leaf springs, etc... The stuff that has been refined from year to year.

I am not absolutley sure on this.

BTW: if you gonna paint the frame use a good eurathane paint. It is bettter than regular paint and can be touched up if nicked or scratched.

[millertime]

If it was my car The Frame and extras would be powdercoated since the cost difference is neg once you factor in cleaning prepping everthing, might as well make it bulletproof


Derek

[TR]

Most urethanes are tougher than powdercoating...

The body should go on, I think the the main difference is the steering column and box...Never tried, though...TR

[millertime]

TR:

I agree to disagree:

What is Powder Coating?

Simply put, powder is paint applied by a different method. Most all powder paints start life as a liquid, very similar to spray paint. This is where the resin, various components and pigments are mixed into a homogenous mass. From there they are partially cured, converted into a solid, extruded and ground (cryogenically) to the desired level. Color matches are much more difficult with powder, as once it is made into the powder coating, it is done, versus paint that can have additives used to give desired effects (color tint, gloss, leveling, texture etc.).

There is a gross misconception out there that powder is some space age material akin to high tech ceramics and carbon fiber. That’s generally not true. Powder is just another method of laying down an organic film, i.e. paint. A powder coating of epoxy will have the same basic properties such as poor UV (sunlight) resistance as a liquid paint. For our purposes, resin types should be limited to Acrylic, Polyester, TGIC Polyester and Urethane resins. These are the systems that have the best UV resistance which equates to gloss retention outdoors.

Most powders have very good chemical and corrosion resistance, but again it is resin specific. Epoxies have excellent chemical resistance. Polyesters and Urethanes are typically used for aesthetic coatings on Cycles and have good resistance. Powders do have an advantage over liquid paint here. If you can, imagine how a liquid coating dries or cures. Solvent has to escape from the film as it "dries down". If you were to look at this under a microscope, you would see a bunch of little pinholes that look like small volcanoes. This is an avenue for moisture and chemicals to penetrate the film more quickly, accelerating corrosion. Powder simply melts down at cure temperature and (usually) isn’t prone to pin holing. Castings are the exception here. They should always be coated after pre-heating so that the pores of the casting don’t "out gas" during the cure cycle. Typical powder cure cycles are 325-375°F @ 12-20 minutes, metal temperature. Actual oven temperature may need to be substantially higher to get the metal to temp in a reasonable amount of time.

Powder coating was introduced to the United States in the late 60’s. It started to really take off in the mid 70’s and has steadily gained in popularity for a number of reasons.

Powder coating is comparatively environmentally friendly. Powders contain no solvents and thus have very low air emissions when curing. Typical powders have a VOC (Volatile Organic Compound) rating of <1.0 pounds per gallon (there is an EPA test method for this!) versus liquid paints in the range of 2.5-7.0 pounds per gallon. There is very little waste with powder. Powder overspray can be collected and reused, rather than just thrown away as with paint over spray.

Powder coating is easy to do. It is much easier to become "good" at applying powder than it is liquid paint. Clean up is also much easier, you can use an air hose instead of solvent.

This was taken from a site which goes into the pros and cons of powdercoating. for the complete transcript goto

http://my.execpc.com/~davewrit/Powder.html

Very informative article.

In a Nutshell the powder or paint is only as good the base resin so ask informed questions before investing in either.

Thx
Derek

[TR]

That is a very informative article, obviously written with the desire to sell product, though. I wonder if a similar support or other coatings may be had...It is interesting that the article states that it is possible to powdercoat a urethane. I wonder how the final product made with a solvent and powder urethane compare?

My experience (albeit very limited) has been that the powder coating I have used before has scrathed very easily and has not kept it's gloss. Maybe it wasn't done properly, but I have seen similar results elsewhere.

I am pretty sure the best frame I have ever seen, the guy said "urethane". It was very clean, glossy, etc...BUT, I do not have first hand experience and I don not know if it was solvent or powder!

Does anyone have any head to head comparisons?

I tend to trust results more than salesmen, and try to ask whenever I see something I like and hope I later remeber the info! Hopefully someone has some good comparison data...TR

[S Allen]

You should be able to put an early body on a late frame or a later body on an early frame. For the SR20 project I will be putting a '65 body on a '69 2 liter frame. The bodies bolt up all the same. The major differences :: The early frame '66-'67 has the early steering box and no rear brace for the axle. **The 67.5's and 68's have the early steering box but have the axle brace. The '69 and later have the better steering box, axle brace. All of the other parts are interchangeable i.e. front end parts, rear ends and rear springs. The major obstacle to mounting and early style body to a later frame is the steering box connection. There is a company that manufactures universal joints and can make a joint to connect an early steering shaft to a later steerng box. Here is the URL to their website http://www.borgeson.com There are other dfferences between the frames but none of them should cause any problems.

**Thanks to Sid for pointing out my error as the '68s also have the early steering box.

Steve

[Datsa 66]

Interestingly enough, I can comment on both the powder coating and frame issues brought up in this post. I had my frame powder coated and it is just paint in a different form and it is "baked" on as opposed to air dried and cured. I like it for its looks and because you can still get pretty much any color you want. I chose a mid grey because my car is black and I wanted it to stand out. I think it looks awesome. I would recommend it for anyone doing their cars. The major restoration shops I know of (including Sports Imports where my car was done) use powder coating on their frames.

Because I brought my car up dismantled to Sports Imports, I had my 67.5 body sitting on a 70 frame. No problems on fit at all. Steve said it right- the only big differences is in the steering box and the torque link which was introduced in the 67.5 model to help combat axle tramp.

I would say if you could, go with a later frame and put your 67.5 body on it if you do not care about numbers matching stuff. Your car will actually be a late model car by vin as it is stamped on the car frame, but who really cares since it is going to be a custom job anyway.


Good Luck,

Andrew Murphy
1967.5 2000 Solex
SRL311-00489

[Minh]

I wonder if it they make a urethane powdercoat in black-chrome?