Is this a problem?

[theunz]

I’m rebuilding my 5 speed Warner transmission and I’m 99.9% sure I have it back together right, BUT third gear is not lining up right between the main shaft and counter shaft. There is about 1/16” offset between them (see red arrow). Every other set of gears lines up perfectly. Nothing has been changed on the counter shaft ( those gears are fixed) and anything I can think of that I could change on the main shaft to line up third gear would result in offsetting another gear. The gap between 2nd and 3rd looks to match the picture I took before tear down, but my picture does not show a good view of how well the gears mesh. Am I just paranoid and overthinking this, or is something wrong?

[MattC]

Looking at one of the manuals from the tech wiki, it looks like that's the way it should be. Hopefully others can confirm.

[theunz]

Thank you for the picture Matt, it does indeed look like third is slightly offset. I just can’t wrap my head around why all the gears aren’t designed to be in perfect alignment! Still, I would sleep easier if someone who is familiar with these transmission’s can confirm.

[Solex68]

David Premo knows a lot about trans. Maybe he can chime in.

[theunz]

After much investigation and studying, not to mention head scratching and hair pulling, I have come to the conclusion that this is indeed correct. The gears on top (counter shaft) are fixed. The gap between second and third on the bottom (main shaft) is set by the shoulder on each gear, and they can each only go on one way. So no matter what you do you will have an overlap on either the second or third gear. If I’m wrong please tell me now, as I’m going to finish it today or tomorrow

[redroadster]

It looks a bit more than I remember, but
The other line up so nothing to do to it unless it's a different 3rd gear
I think because drag racing on street as manual transers do ...you slam 3rd hard this gave a bit more room
Also it was a weak link on purpose as it would kick out of gear easier if there was a problem instead of destroying the assy.

[david premo]

No that needs to be shimmed or it will cause a problem in the future. Gears should be perfectly aligned. Dave

[theunz]

Dave where does the shim need to be, counter shaft or main shaft? If I move the counter shaft the other 3 gears will be misaligned. If I add anything to the main shaft then it will cover the groove for the circlip. Perplexed is an understatement! Anyone have an actual picture? The picture in the service manual seems to show an overlap as well. Here is a picture of the area I took before disassembly. Unfortunately it’s not very precise due to the fact that the bearing for the counter shaft had come apart and there was significant slop in the shaft.

[bmccarthy67]

Mike, I can look through some photo's that I didn't load to my resto page. I have photos on my site of 2 5-speed rebuilds. There is a photo from 20 Sep 20 that looks like the gaps were smaller (very hard to tell as all my photos seem to be opposite angle of yours but as you said the offending area has "fixed" limits) and a 2 Aug 20 photo at disassembly where they seem aligned, but again could simply be angle of photo? I will look through none uploaded photos to see if it looks different. I have other photos with the countershaft off that the gap seems to match yours so of course it seems correct?

v/r
Buddy

[redroadster]

If the syncro hub( of 2nd ) is backwards may be the culprit
Isn't 1st gear off too ....kinda hard to see but looks askew
& If not 1piece cluster gear can be off there

[jrusso07]

I am not sure if these are the correct shims for the problem because the whole counter shaft would move...but On Page 46-1 (page 119 of the pdf) of this parts list http://www.311s.org/PDFs/PartsCatalogSR ... 1_1968.pdf, Item 17 is a set of shims - right at the bottom middle of the attachment. Looks like the shim goes between the center plate and the counter shaft bearing. Shim sizes from 0.4 to 1.0 (assume mm?)

Trans gears.PNG

Shim Part numbers.PNG

[david premo]

Hey Mike give me a call and let’s talk about it. I is one of 2 problems. Dave

[theunz]

Arrrgh! So simple, I just needed a bigger hammer. So, in spite of tapping on the input shaft it just wasn’t fully seated on the main shaft. I was being pretty gingerly with my hammer, but when I gave it a little more solid wack I felt the input shaft move slightly and Viola! The stars are aligned thanks to everybody for their input.
This is certainly one of those jobs where the second time will be WAY easier! Oh God, please don’t let their be a need for a second time

[MattC]

Good deal!! Glad you could figure it out!

[Gregs672000]

Awesome family response as Always! Glad it's Good!