G R and H timing gear info

Tech tips and how to's

Moderators: notoptoy, S Allen, Solex68, bmccarthy67

User avatar
Curtis
Site Supporter
Posts: 3833
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:49 pm
Location: Des Moines, WA
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by Curtis »

I should note here that at this time I have complete sets so will think about if I have a future need. I was able to get some stuff from local members.
66 stroker, almost done.
67 basket case, paint coming soon.
JT68
Talented Enthusiast
Posts: 2659
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:43 am
Location: Cumming, GA

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by JT68 »

Makes sense to use them, as long as you don't mix SAE and Metric keyed/forklift sprockets, you will be fine. The SAE cam will never know the difference.
LT/JT
Datsunrestorationproducts.com
Only the very BEST parts for your Datsun- 10000's of items in stock
New, Used and Reproduction!
Datsunparts.comInc
Roadsteraholic
Posts: 736
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:17 am

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by Datsunparts.comInc »

Curtis, You were instrumental in helping with the WIKI so I will send you a free set of sprockets for your troubles.

D-
New Shopping cart web-site. More parts on display in our showroom than most vendors carry in their entire inventory! 2900 active parts numbers in our catalog. 2020 Inventory piece count- 96,155 parts on hand! "Shop A Movie" at our web-site
User avatar
Curtis
Site Supporter
Posts: 3833
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:49 pm
Location: Des Moines, WA
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by Curtis »

Datsunparts.comInc wrote: Fri Jun 10, 2022 1:02 pm Curtis, You were instrumental in helping with the WIKI so I will send you a free set of sprockets for your troubles.

D-
Score!!! Thanks. This is what initial confusion and ignorance can do for you. More for my hoarding.
66 stroker, almost done.
67 basket case, paint coming soon.
User avatar
23yrRebuild
Roadster Fanatic-Site Supporter
Posts: 1023
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2003 2:19 pm
Location: 3rd rock from the sun
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by 23yrRebuild »

WOW ...Dean...! ! ...Impressive vendor support !
Mike - '67 Stroker / 5-Speed
User avatar
Bwk2000
Roadsteraholic
Posts: 736
Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2021 3:09 pm
Location: Halifax, Nova Scotia
Model: 1500/1600
Year: High Windshield-68-70

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by Bwk2000 »

23yrRebuild wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:09 pm WOW ...Dean...! ! ...Impressive vendor support !
+1 👍
Kai
Halifax, N.S.
‘69 SPL311 Sports 1600

Classic Cars - Because clean fingernails, free weekends, intact knuckles and financial stability are totally overrated.
User avatar
richard
Roadster Fanatic-Site Supporter
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:03 am
Location: Hoorn, The Netherlands

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by richard »

What I don’t understand is if the cam profile is the same ( as you can see in the other discussion) SAE and Metric, why still want to have two different sprockets, SAE or metric.
When you replace always replace both sprockets, it is stupid if you don’t.
So if there is such a big timing difference between them, SAE and Metric, I would choose the one that gives me the best engine performance and won’t use the other type anymore.
JT68
Talented Enthusiast
Posts: 2659
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:43 am
Location: Cumming, GA

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by JT68 »

Hi Richard, probably the only issue is the fit of the crank sprocket on the crank. If you can live with the less than perfect fit
of the metric crank sprocket on the SAE crank nose, you are correct, all that is needed is a pair of metric sprockets and you are set.

We have a few new SAE sprockets around which is why we supported both types. Your point is well taken as usual.
LT/JT
Datsunrestorationproducts.com
Only the very BEST parts for your Datsun- 10000's of items in stock
New, Used and Reproduction!
User avatar
spl310
Roadster Guru
Posts: 13006
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 10:38 pm
Location: In front of this keyboard... in Jacksonville, Florida!

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by spl310 »

Bravo Dean!
"Wow, a Roadster!" Stuart Little

1967.5 2000
1967.5 2000
1964 1500
1964 1500
1967.5 1600
1968 chassis
2006 Acura MDX
2013 Volkswagen Jetta TDI wagon
1995 F350 Powerstroke!
More...
User avatar
richard
Roadster Fanatic-Site Supporter
Posts: 540
Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 11:03 am
Location: Hoorn, The Netherlands

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by richard »

From my point of view there is no difference between the timing SAE or METRIC as long as both sprockets are used from the same metric or same SAE engine.
As you can see the distance between the keyway and the timing mark is the same on both sprockets.
The only thing which changes is the position of the chain on the sprockets, but as far as I can see this has no influence on the timing as I showed on the pictures below.
The sprocket bore and keyway dimensions are the only different things I found, but that can not be reproduced both in one single set.

Let me know if I missed something.

Image

Image

Image

Image

METRIC SETUP:
Image

TDC seen at top picture
Image

Image

SAE SETUP:
Image

TDC seen at top picture
Image

Image

FSM timing set up:
Image
Last edited by richard on Sun Jun 12, 2022 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
JT68
Talented Enthusiast
Posts: 2659
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:43 am
Location: Cumming, GA

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by JT68 »

Spot on Richard, Thank you, Dave(and Stan) and Curtis for all your help with this project!

I'm finishing another stroker (metric) build now, so I'm glad this is all sorted.

As with all R,H,U engines you can see the timing marks and the centers of the crank and cam are in a straight line at TDC. If you have a mis-match or are off one tooth, that won't be the case. One or both marks will be out of position.

Pretty sure lots of engines have been dorked up with mismatched or incorrect sprockets! (it stung me many years ago....)
LT/JT
Datsunrestorationproducts.com
Only the very BEST parts for your Datsun- 10000's of items in stock
New, Used and Reproduction!
Datsunparts.comInc
Roadsteraholic
Posts: 736
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:17 am

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by Datsunparts.comInc »

Yes Richard correct. The company that made our sprockets started with blanks for both sprockets. Then both keyways on the sprockets early and late SAE and metric were cut respective to the original SAE and Metric sprocket dimensions. This saved time and money to make the sprockets.
Bore diameters are honed for SAE and Metric. As our customers provide the year of their cars they receive what they need.
Since some people may have a new SAE crank or new SAE Cam sprocket or have just one good sprocket and will want to replace the other these will be sold as separate sku's to be used only with these engines.

https://datsunparts.com/collections/eng ... t-sprocket

My experience is that people usually opt for replacing both sprockets and be done with it. There is a instruction sheet that comes with the sets.

D-
Last edited by Datsunparts.comInc on Tue Jun 14, 2022 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
New Shopping cart web-site. More parts on display in our showroom than most vendors carry in their entire inventory! 2900 active parts numbers in our catalog. 2020 Inventory piece count- 96,155 parts on hand! "Shop A Movie" at our web-site
Datsunparts.comInc
Roadsteraholic
Posts: 736
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2012 11:17 am

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by Datsunparts.comInc »

23yrRebuild wrote: Sat Jun 11, 2022 4:09 pm WOW ...Dean...! ! ...Impressive vendor support !
Thanks. I think people need to be supported for their efforts. I knew Curtis had an early car so I felt it appropriate.

D-
New Shopping cart web-site. More parts on display in our showroom than most vendors carry in their entire inventory! 2900 active parts numbers in our catalog. 2020 Inventory piece count- 96,155 parts on hand! "Shop A Movie" at our web-site
User avatar
Curtis
Site Supporter
Posts: 3833
Joined: Fri Jan 01, 2010 2:49 pm
Location: Des Moines, WA
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by Curtis »

I hadn't posted about the gears I received. Very pleased with what I see. Going to put them in my 1800 stroker. One of the local guys already used his set.

As to the cam specs and profile being the same, I posted links to these spec sheets in another thread. Advance is not the same. Metric shows retarded timing on the sheet. Timing difference total is 1.9 degrees.

https://kendo-usa.org/datsun/r16_sae_fa ... m_spec.pdf

https://kendo-usa.org/datsun/r16_metric ... m_spec.pdf
66 stroker, almost done.
67 basket case, paint coming soon.
JT68
Talented Enthusiast
Posts: 2659
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 9:43 am
Location: Cumming, GA

Re: G R and H timing gear info

Post by JT68 »

Curtis, you may want to be careful how you interpret the sheets above.


These data sheets are much more correct:

http://www.kendo-usa.org/datsun/datashe ... metric.pdf

http://www.kendo-usa.org/datsun/datashe ... 55_sae.pdf
LT/JT
Datsunrestorationproducts.com
Only the very BEST parts for your Datsun- 10000's of items in stock
New, Used and Reproduction!