Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

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Daremo
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Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by Daremo » Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:41 pm

Hello all, first time poster. I'm entertained by the idea of restoring a roadster and have been doing a little research on the car. Including looking for one that may be worthy of the time and money to invest.

Here is one I've found in the mid-Atlantic (I am located in MD, so this is not that far from me).

https://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva ... 27944.html

The lister actually has a few, with most stored outside it appears. They also sent me some more pics of the frame and engine.

Worth it? If not, worth trying to bargain on it?

Thanks!

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GeoffM
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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by GeoffM » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:00 pm

Hey Daremo,
Welcome to the insanity :)
That one looks like quite the project, if a project is something you are looking for.
The old adage of "buying the best one you can afford" really holds true for the Roadsters. For example, you could spend $10k and get a good everyday driver. You could buy that one and easily spend $10k on getting it into a nice driver type restoration....and you'll still end up with a $10k car.

So it comes down to whether you want a project to tinker with or not. What I've found is that a good running Roadster still gives you lots of opportunities to get greasy, if that is the goal.
Geoff
1969 SPL-311

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Gregs672000
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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by Gregs672000 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:56 pm

In my opinion, that car would require a frame off restoration even to become a driver. The front fenders are rusting at the door pillar, so that area INSIDE and the rockers back to the trunk are all suspect, as are the floors. While they may end up being repairable (almost everything is) it would require stripping everything. With the horse hair pads on the frame, you can bet it's rusting there and they need to be removed. My car was far worse, and I did everything on a college kids tight budget when parts were still available from the dealer, but there will be rust work and perhaps even more than is showing now. Workable, but for me it's overpriced. The attraction is the low miles, which is fine for suspension wear items (ball joints etc, but all the boots would need to be replaced, and the steering box needs to be inspected in case it was run out of lube and allowed to rust) but an engine that sits still deteriorates (seals, gaskets, acid in the oil eating the crank bearings, wiring etc gets old... just saying). I would really want to look that engine over. The 5 speed probably has not had the 5th gear repair done yet, so it would need to come apart and be repaired. All the chrome would need to be done or replaced... brakes? Likely shot. Nice that it's a U20 with the 5speed, but I think you could find a driver in much better shape on the west coast or central US and drive it back or have it shipped. May not get a 2 liter for the same price, but that can be changed, upgrades made to the R engine, or another modern engine swapped in later.

My suggestion is to contact someone on the west coast to discuss a similar price for a more solid car. This of course is based on limited info on what your desires and skill levels are... JUST MY 2 CENTS! If you give us a good idea of what you desire, what is important to you, what your experience level is, maybe a budget, and a time frame we can probably advise you better... that's what we're here for, support!
:smt006
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'67 2000 #588
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bmccarthy67
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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by bmccarthy67 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:24 pm

Well we seem to have less available choices here on the east coast, but Craig has lots of Roadsters on his property so at least you could deal to get a hold of almost anything you need on the initial pick up. If you've been researching then you have probably made your choice of 1600 vs. 2000 or low vs. high windshield (don't settle if you want a specific type or you may end up in the rut of looking even after you purchase your 1st roadster). Everyone is right on the "get the best you can' debate, but if your goal is restoration and it's more of a hobby thing, the "hunt" for pieces and parts is sort of part of the game/challenge/fun for me. I have spent WAY more than I'll ever get back on all of my Roadsters combined, but they have kept me busy and challenged and out of trouble for years. Maybe when your up on his property you'll see one of his low windshields or one off cars he has that may be a better restoration candidate.


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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by greydog » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:11 pm

Looks like a pretty complete, if not pristine, car.
It's a 2 liter but I see it's on a trailer so guessing it does not run.
No engine pictures so don't know if it's got SU engine or Solex engine.
The brakes may (or may not) work.
Body is pretty beat up, there's not a panel that you wouldn't have to do body work on.
So, for me, if the car ran, stopped and drove well it would be worth the money.
Gotta assume it doesn't so maybe $2000 or so assuming it will roll and that the engine and drive train are all there.
And, as others have said, that assumes you want a pretty good sized project.
Typical advice for a first roadster is to buy the best one you can afford.
Dan
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theunz
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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by theunz » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:14 pm

Agree with everyone else above. If you will go to datsunparts.com you can get an idea of pricing for the parts you will need. Deans site is very easy to navigate and has lots of new and repo parts with pictures. You will need, master cylinder, front calipers, complete interior kit, weatherstripping kit, tail lights, console kit windshield pad kit...ect,ect,ect! Reconditioned side trim will set you back about $800, and you will find you'll need other hard to source parts. At 70,000 miles it's probably going to need new timing components at around $1000. U20 rebuilds can be very expensive. Even if he gave you that car you would probably be upside down by the time you restored it to even a number two condition.
__________

Mike M
1969 2000 solex mine since 1972, under resurrection. 1969 Porsche 911s -worth more, but not as valuable!

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mshort07
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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by mshort07 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:15 pm

My opinion seems to line up with the others as well. It looks like that car will need to be blasted down to bare metal and then a fair amount of metal patch work will need to be done before it goes off to paint. And that’s just the body. The add description doesn’t seem to match the pictures very well.

I’m a fellow east coast roadster guy, east of Richmond va. Not much to choose from over here. I started with one that looked similar, if not in better condition, as the body was concerned. As with anything, when you start tearing into something, you find more and more issues. Four cars for parts and seven on and off years later and the end is now in site.

Looking for a full on project? You should be able to find a cheaper car to start with. You might not be able to find such a complete one to start with though. Looking for something you can get on the road quickly? That car might not be right for you.

Try expanding your search. I’ve seen a few in North Carolina.

One things for sure. Prices are going up, up, and up.
Matt
Urbanna VA
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datsun1500
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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by datsun1500 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:44 pm

You’ll spend $20k and a lot of time making that a $12k car.

Look at this for reference, and remember, shipping is cheap compared to body work.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Datsun-Ot ... 7675.l2557
I remember when no one wanted the 1500s......

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jrusso07
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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by jrusso07 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:25 am

Another nice west coast car on eBay... Seller entertaining offers, maybe you can negotiate shipping charges?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970-Datsun-Ot ... 3536216942
Joe

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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by Daremo » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:34 am

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate the quick responses.

My approach to this would be a full restoration done by myself (with maybe some help from my sons if they wanted to). I'd definitely be going at it as a long period build for fun/hobby. I'm pretty well mechanically inclined and have done everything up to head swap on one car and an engine swap in another for my brother. I typically do all my own modification installs on my cars. (Currently a 2017 WRX putting down close to 300 hp at the wheels).

As long as a car has solid bones, I'm willing to consider it. The trick comes in knowing what to look for to decide if it doesn't have that! I've checked out the datsunparts site, and it seems like a great resource. I've already gotten a bit of sticker understanding from that. Having worked on an E46 M3, and seeing the parts cost for that, the Datsun stuff doesn't look too bad! ;)

The trick is really going to be to convince my wife when it is a good time to pull the trigger. I've been floating the ideas and dropping hints, so she is somewhat on board with it in the future. But I like to do things quickly. She's the opposite of that!

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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by Daremo » Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:36 am

Here is another I have in my watch list:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Datsun-SP ... 3116348155

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theunz
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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by theunz » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:53 am

This may sound counterintuitive to what I previously posted, but since you mentioned a long term full restoration, than the starting point is not quite so critical. If you are going to end up putting $15,000 or $20,000, (presuming that you're doing most of the work yourself) over paying by a thousand or fifteen hundred initially won't really mean much in the end. If the "bones" are good, than things like paint, interior, chrome, and mechanical are going to be replaced wether it's a #5 car or a#3 car. Paying a little more for a 2000 vs. a 1600 may pay off in the end, although the U20 will cost a few thousand more to rebuild than the 1600. Since the seller says he has better chrome and other parts than you should try to make sure the car comes with all of it's parts. If there is no major rust, he has ALL the parts, and throws in the new top and wheel cylinders, and then comes down on his price a little you'll probably be ok in the long run. Just don't expect to make money off this project! Keeping in mind the limited availability of these cars in your location (well actually anywhere other than the west coast) sometimes one will need to pay a small premium in order to get what he wants in a timely manner. Good luck with your endeavors.
__________

Mike M
1969 2000 solex mine since 1972, under resurrection. 1969 Porsche 911s -worth more, but not as valuable!

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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by jamesw » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:40 pm

The cars on Craig's property are not properly stored which is a real shame. I also don't think you will get any kind of a deal because he values his cars very highly and not necessarily what comparable cars are selling for.

With that said, I think everything is negotiable so worth a shot! I have restored a 67 2000 in much worse shape and it was worth it financially. Probably harder to make the $$ and cents work with a 68.

James
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Gregs672000
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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by Gregs672000 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:09 pm

While I have not rebuilt an R engine and only my own U20, I don't know why a U20 would be thousands of dollars more than an R16. The only major difference is the dual chains and gears. While the gears do wear out, not only have they come way down in price and with improved quality, my stock gears have gone thousands and thousands of miles and are just as good as the brand new ones I purchased, thinking "they must be worn" but they're not. If the gears are undercut, then less than $500 will replace them forever. I don't think machine work will be more, valves and guides are valves and guides, bearings etc should be very comparable, gasket sets are comparable. Pistons could be an issue IF needed, but there are perfectly fine stock cast pistons that are the same quality as stock, cams can be cleaned up, rockers can be surfaced or replaced (replacements are spendy, resurfaced is not). I'm open to someone showing me actual figures to refute this, but for now I don't buy it.

Since you're willing to do work and get down and dirty, this opens some more possibly... and additional questions, namely how important is power? A stroked R with other mods will approach and sometimes beat a stock SU carbed U20, but it does require stroking the engine (modified U20 or other crank, not sure if you need different rods... others know) likely some port work and carbs (fortunately the manifold to adapt Weber style carbs is cheap compared to a U20 solex mani), improved ignition (can be said for both engines though), likely new pistons and maybe a bump in compression to 9.5 or so to one (vs stock Rs 9 to 1), and an appropriate cam. Or you could swap in an SR or similar engine (more mods) to get more power... reason I say all this is your comment on the 300 hp WRX. You won't get that kind of power out of a 50yr old car without putting in a different engine (for most, the car has plenty of power, especially with the U20 and the 5 speed. But, the go faster parts for the U20 are significantly more expensive vs the R16, and the R is a great little engine). You will have to learn how to tune it, as much of what is automatically done in a modern car via a computer is done manually (like carb jetting or SU needle choices: Use a wideband O2 set up). What you will get is a very well balanced car that's a blast to drive and is unlike anything modern. You will KNOW this car like no other. And we can help you (you seriously join a dedicated family of Roadster lovers with deep knowledge, support and a very relaxed attitude not usually found on other car sites on the internet).

Body work is time consuming, dirty, and requires some experience or the willingness to learn, and PERSEVERANCE. For me, it's been a fun journey, but it has been a journey, and requires a dedicated space to do it. Believe me, I'm not trying to discourage you, I just want you to understand what you're getting into and want you to be successful and happy with the final product. What do you really want from this experience, as well as what is truly important to you? Start with the vision and we will be able to tell you how realistic this vision is, how much it may cost and how much work/skill/outsourcing it may take. There are some truly amazing cars on this site with everything from bone stock to highly modified, as well as all the rest of us whose cars are always a work in progress. Bottom line, we love our cars... There's just something about a Roadster that hits you, and the public can feel it every time the car comes out. People will approach you about the car, tell you stories about their own experiences, or just feel the special something that more expensive and exotic cars just don't seem to generate within them. It's the plucky Datsun, the underdog, the car that's somehow cooler than it should be. Or maybe it's just me (Ha! Say all the owners on this list :D)
Hope this is helpful.
:smt006
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Re: Is it worth it? '68 2000 in VA

Post by notoptoy » Wed Feb 13, 2019 7:15 pm

jamesw wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:40 pm
The cars on Craig's property are not properly stored which is a real shame. I also don't think you will get any kind of a deal because he values his cars very highly and not necessarily what comparable cars are selling for.

James
Perfectly worded James.
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