Oils

Place to put all stickies after a month.

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spl310
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Oils

Post by spl310 » Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:23 am

Diesel oils may not be a solution much longer. Shell has reformulated Rotella to reduce the amount of Zinc in it. I am sure that other diesel oils are following suit. (there was a big discussion about this on a Cobra forum - since those guys put more money into just their engine than we put into our whole cars, they have a vested interest...)
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project_timemachine
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Post by project_timemachine » Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:45 am

How about Castrol Magnatec 10W-40? I've been using it on my roadster for a year now and the engine seems to be doing ok - no oil smoke, easy start-up, good idle, overall good engine response... OR should I stay away from it and start using another brand? :shock:
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Post by SLOroadster » Mon Jan 15, 2007 3:48 pm

This is interesting news. I didn't see Mobile 1 listed, I run 15/50 in the roadster. I'm really wondering about my alfa engine seeing as its plenty healthy now, and hasn't been apart since sometime around 1975. I better check my Castrol syn-blend that I was about to use. I'm not too thrilled about having 2 cars that require $80 oil changes as that gets pricy very quickly.

Redline makes good stuff. After I had the axel housing fail last year and I had to limp the car home (no cellphone coverage where I was) I found no damage to anything in the rear end (aside from the giant crack in the housing).

Will
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Post by ppeters914 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:26 pm

Hmmmm.....time to buy stock in Redline? 8)
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dbrick
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Post by dbrick » Mon Jan 15, 2007 6:51 pm

More info, from a link at Haggerty.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... _cam_tech/

I also remember reading somewhere that modern synthetics don't necessarilly work well with the rubber used in 40 year old engine seals and gaskets, I'll try to find the article.

I'm using Castrol Syntec, no problems, no leaks, but..... I guess it's time for a change.

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Linda
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Post by Linda » Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:51 pm

Would a valve job necessitate the Castrol HD 30 for a break-in as well or is it just for a total engine rebuild?

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dbrick
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Post by dbrick » Tue Jan 16, 2007 12:07 am

Sounds like any new metal to metal wear points would be considered "break in" as the metal will need the additives to build up as they wear into proper contact. I would think a valve job would qualify, especially if the rockers are being replaced. Either way, wouldn't hurt.

Looks like a good week to make an oil spray bar for the 2000. anyone engineer one before or have any specs on hole size for the sprayers? At least the valve cover is cracked already, so a couple holes won't hurt. Testing is gonna make a mess. I'll post pics if they are funny.

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ppeters914
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Post by ppeters914 » Tue Jan 16, 2007 7:59 pm

dbrick wrote:I also remember reading somewhere that modern synthetics don't necessarilly work well with the rubber used in 40 year old engine seals and gaskets, I'll try to find the article..
Never saw an article, but that info was discussed last year on the Bluebirds list, primarily to dispel a lot of synthetic oil myths, i.e. you can't run synthetics in old cars because of the seals -- which ain't really true if you've replaced the seals w/ new ones from modern materials. However, if you've replaced seals, etc using 30-40 year old OEM stuff.....

Sounds like a no-brainer to me. Break it in w/ 10W-30 or just 30W, then switch to Redline at the first oil change at 3k.
Pete
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'67 1600 - frame off in progress. What a stupid idea. :smt021
'66 1600 - parts car
'66 WPL411 - no engine or trans. If I was smart, I would sell it.
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Post by spyder » Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:26 am

When I rebuild an engine I use that black molly grease on everything. I figured it would stick when first starting. Who knew it had other benefits. Valvoline makes racing oils which has ZDDP added to it.

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Mr Camouflage
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Post by Mr Camouflage » Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:53 am

Maybe this topic should be made "sticky".

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dbrick
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Post by dbrick » Mon Jan 29, 2007 7:18 pm

Mr Camouflage wrote:Maybe this topic should be made "sticky".
I think sticky is the problem, we want Slippery.
Seriuosly, it is important.

Steve, anyway to send a "Hot Topic " alert to the whole 311's list, this could be very expensive for someone who misses the info.

Dave Brisco

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RE:Sticky

Post by S Allen » Mon Jan 29, 2007 8:34 pm

I made it a "Sticky". :smt026

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Minh
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more to the topic

Post by Minh » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:22 pm

Hey fellas! It has been awhile, but soon with Gerardo and Lou's the help of I will be runing my Roadster up thissummer (along with my 74 Beetle as daily driver - bat is another story).

I did some research on missing ZDDP additive in OTC motor oils with advent to protect modern catalytic converters. Since I was so close I need to know more before I turn the engines over for the 1st time.

When breaking a new/rebuilt engine in it has been recommend by the Corvette and Mustang heads (you cna Google it) to add the GM O.E.S additive that has the extra ZDDP for initial start. The item was pulled and re-entered on the shelf, and the new part number is #88862586. NOTE: GM recommended that the oil be changed very soon after break in and before the engine was raced, and his answer was that some of the additives would cause the engine to detonate very easily. http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/sh ... 715&page=4

Being we pre-catalytic converter type engines this reduction in ZDDP is not doing us any favors at all and the the alternatives to ZDDP (boron, etc..) pail in comparison. THis meeans we need another source for oil. There are many out there but I can't the numbers of Zn/P levels and PPM in for all of them.

Talking to the man LN Engineering on the phone led me to his oils page http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html (sorry, VW related).

I found that for the 15W-50, 20W-50 or 10W-40 oils from motorcycles still have the optimum levels of ZDDP and other minerals we require. that is a ratio of around .801 Phosphoruos:Zinc (P:Zn) ratio or about 1% by weight. You can see the other various popular Zinc contents here too - http://www.zddplus.com/

Also, STP has als reduced the amount of ZDDP - FYI.

If you gonna go with an OTC additive the CD-2 Street legal oil booster (SLOB)seems to be the better of them all with 2 VOR indicating that the Zinc content was at above 4900PPM will be a better choice for now. If you are lucky you can get a BIG Lots for $1 bottle. http://sterkel.org/avanti/documents/HowMuchAdditive.pdf

The brands of oil that I could come up with online with supporting numbers are - Mobil 1, AMSOil, Spectro and Harley Davidson.
http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g2156.pdf
http://www.xlrator.com/personal/oil/

Here's a VOA provided by CTC Analytical Services of Phoenix, AZ and reported in a recent issue of Full Throttle magazine:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ub ... 19&fpart=2
http://www.hdforums.com/m_1379162/mpage ... tm#1408675

Mobil 1 Synthetic 15-50W Silver Cap (possibly Red Cap too) http://www.stevesnovasite.com/forums/sh ... 715&page=4
Silicon: 9ppm
Boron: 228ppm
Sodium: 13ppm
Magnesium: 43ppm
Calcium: 2464ppm
Phosphorus: 1193ppm
Zinc: 1315ppm
Molybdenum: 90ppm

Mobil 1 for V-Twin 20-50W. $23.95/pail (5 quarts) @ WalMart)
Silicon: 10 ppm
Boron: 188 ppm
Sodium: 3 ppm
Magnesium: 538 ppm
Calcium: 1899 ppm
Phosphorus: 1142 ppm
Zinc: 1352 ppm
Molybdenum: 0 ppm

HD 350 20W-50
Silicon: 10 ppm
Boron: 304 ppm
Sodium: 2 ppm
Magnesium: 679 ppm
Calcium: 1194 ppm
Phosphorus: 1056 ppm
Zinc: 1217 ppm
Molybdenum: 2 ppm

HD Syn3 20W-50
Silicon: 6 ppm
Boron: 245 ppm
Sodium: 2 ppm
Magnesium: 552 ppm
Calcium: 961 ppm
Phosphorus: 990 ppm
Zinc: 1071 ppm
Molybdenum: 0 ppm

HD Primary Chain
Silicon: 5 ppm
Boron: 148 ppm
Sodium: 2 ppm
Magnesium: 10 ppm
Calcium: 1761ppm
Phosphorus: 1039 ppm
Zinc: 1143 ppm
Molybdenum: 89 ppm

I don't have the PPM for the Mobil 1 MX4T 10W-40, or Golden Specto 4 20W-50, AMSOil 10W-40/20W-50 oil - sorry!

However, it it looking like the AMSOil motorcycle 10W-40/20W-50 is hands down better.

As far as price the Mobil 1 is the deal to get, but it only in 20W-50 @ ~ $4.79/quart.

Hopes this helps and maybe you can judge for yroursellf correct my mistakes. I don't know everything! :)
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Minh
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Post by Minh » Tue Apr 08, 2008 4:27 pm

I forgot this...

"ZDDP is most effective if the concentration is between 0.18 and 0.2 % by weight. Tests have shown that concentrations above this amount, up to as much as several percent, have no effect except to prolong additive life. The current oils available today contain very little ZDDP."
http://www.zddplus.com/
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It's a D-A-T-S-U-N
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Post by It's a D-A-T-S-U-N » Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:37 pm

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