rear brakes

Tech tips and how to's

Moderators: notoptoy, garth, S Allen

Guest

rear brakes

Post by Guest » Sat Jan 04, 2003 3:33 pm

well i pulled the rear wheels to check the rear brakes. i have never messed with drums before and have no clue how to get them off. the service manual mentions that there are drum brakes but does not tell how to remove them. any help appreciated. :shock:

70MTroadster

checking the rear brake shoes

Post by 70MTroadster » Sat Jan 04, 2003 6:34 pm

I'll assume you have the rear of the car well supported with jack stands and that the tranny is in neutral and the emergency brake is off. See if you can rotate the drums by hand easily and or pull them off over the lug nut studs. If they start to come off but then seem to be hung up, it is due to the fact that the shoes have worn a lip inside the drum and you will have to use the brake adjuster on the inside of the backing plate to adjust the shoes inward so that the drum will come off easier. The adjuster is a square, 1/4 inch threaded deal located towards the front of the car on the backside of the backing plate. I use a 1/4 inch drive socket adaptor with the 1/4 inch drive portion going over the adjuster. Then an 8mm allen head drive goes in the adaptor, then a 5/16 inch x 3/8 drive socket goes over that. This gives you a nonslip, 3/8 drive tool to turn the adjuster with. I believe clockwise tightens the shoes and counterclockwise loosens them. Give it a whirl and you will soon be able to remove the drums and check out the shoes. Once removed, blow out the brake dust with an air hose (probably don't want to breath this stuff if you can help it). Check the inside of the drums for a groove caused by the shoes wearing it there. If it is smooth, cool, you won't need to get them turned. Check the shoes. You should be able to tell pretty easily whether or not they are worn out or not. It's been a while now, but I seem to remember that the rear brake shoes on my 2000's lasted a long time. Good luck.....

User avatar
S Allen
Site Admin
Posts: 4021
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:57 pm
Location: Knoxville, IA(Lake Redrock)Antioch, CA(Winter Months)
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

RE:Rear Brakes

Post by S Allen » Sat Jan 04, 2003 7:16 pm

Right on but instead of using compressed air to blow asbestos all over get a garden hose and use water. Asbestos is not water soluable but at least it won't be in the air you are breathing. One other thing. If that little adjuster does not turn smoothly pull it out, clean it up and put some Never-Seize on it. I believe there are two bolts holding it on. It makes future adjustments much easier. This is fun sharing ideas.

Steve

Guest

brakes

Post by Guest » Sat Jan 04, 2003 7:56 pm

well i got them off. i had the emergency brake on! the drum slid right off when i released it. i appreciate the info. the brake cylinders seem ok. the outer boot looks good and there seems to be no leaks.

kt

Post by kt » Sat Jan 04, 2003 10:13 pm

69 1600
I just changed out my rear brakes as well.

One thing i noticed was, I did not have to screw in my left rear
brake adjuster nut very much.
The right rear however, I had to screw that in several times. The
nut is more than half way in now.
I suppose this means I need new a new drum??

If so, can someone give me a manufacturer/part# so I can
go buy one? I cant seem to locate it.

thanks

User avatar
S Allen
Site Admin
Posts: 4021
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:57 pm
Location: Knoxville, IA(Lake Redrock)Antioch, CA(Winter Months)
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

RE:New Drums

Post by S Allen » Sat Jan 04, 2003 11:18 pm

KT,

New drums may be hard to come by. Front rotors yes- rear drums? Any one else?? I am unaware of any others that will fit the roadster like 510 or 240Z drums. Your best bet is to find a set of used drums and hope they are not too used. This could be a real problem some day. I would say you are absolutely right about one side being more worn than the other. Adjustment should be fairly equal. When are you going to register? Not that you have to but we could use a few more participants.
:wink:
Steve

70MTroadster

replacement drums

Post by 70MTroadster » Sun Jan 05, 2003 2:55 pm

My two cents worth. See if my logic holds up. I own a 71 510 and a 70 1600 Roadster. I happen to have a complete spare 72 510 rear crossmember and a complete spare 69 1600 rear end laying side by side in my breezeway. Yeah, I know, my wife of 30 years is VERY understanding of my packratizm. Anyway, I say that the 510 or 240Z drums will work on the Roadster. The parts interchange list on this site shows that early 510 brake shoes will work on the Roadsters. I put one of the 72 drums on the 69 1600 spare I have and it slipped right on and rotated with no troubles. I measured the two drums for width, depth, etc., etc., and they seem to be the same thing other than the 510 does not have the finning. A 240Z drum would though. With the drums off of the Roadster and the 510, the brake guts look identical. I think they are...having owned the 510 all these years, and having to worry about spare parts for it down the road, I know that 240Z brake drums bolt right up as an upgrade to the 510's standard drum. They say to it is necessary to trim the 510 backing plate. I checked and it has a lip on the outside edge. This lip is not there on the Roadster backing plate. So......in a pinch, I don't see why a 510 drum or a 240Z drum would not work on the Roadster. Comments?

User avatar
S Allen
Site Admin
Posts: 4021
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:57 pm
Location: Knoxville, IA(Lake Redrock)Antioch, CA(Winter Months)
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

RE:Rear Brakes

Post by S Allen » Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:31 pm

Scott,

That is really great info. I have some 240Z drums and a spare 1600 rear end but never had(or took) the time to check the fit. It sounds like you did all of that. I would bet that they would work. I have been running with 510 rear brake shoes since I first got my roadster. No problems at all. 240Z drums are still available although it does pay to shop around as the prices vary. I got some for my Z a year or so ago for around $60.00 a piece. I think you have a valid point and I will give it a try on my 66 project car sometime in the future. Thanks for sharing.

Steve

70MTroadster

more on rear drums

Post by 70MTroadster » Sun Jan 05, 2003 5:25 pm

The folks that turned me on to the 240Z drums fitting the 510 also say that the 260Z and 28Z have the same brakes as the 240Z, so drums for those cars should be the same as the 240Z. Point is, the 280Z was made until 1978, so that brings the drums even closer to us availability wise.

This same site mentions that the rear disc brakes from the 200SX (1983, I think) with the banjo brake line fitting will go on the 510 with minor mods. That year 200SX is a solid axle car like our Roadsters. Its got me to wondering if those disc brakes could be adapted to our cars.......?? I'll let you folks know what I find out.

The "Datsun Parts Cars and the Treasures They Keep" is at http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Spee ... tscar.html

enjoy

scott

User avatar
S Allen
Site Admin
Posts: 4021
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:57 pm
Location: Knoxville, IA(Lake Redrock)Antioch, CA(Winter Months)
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

RE:Rear Brakes

Post by S Allen » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:00 pm

Right you are again! The Z rear brakes are all the same through 1978. I sure hope they do work even with minor modifications if required. Scott, that link you supplied comes back with an error. You know come to think of it-the studs on the Z are metric and the studs on the roadsters are standard. I put metric Z studs in the race car front and back so I had to *drill* them out just a bit to get the 12MM studs in. What does that mean? There may be just a bit of slop in the fitment but not enough to be a show stopper. Just thinking out loud.

Steve

70MTroadster

datsun parts cars and their parts

Post by 70MTroadster » Sun Jan 05, 2003 7:04 pm

Well, dog gone it anyway. I have a 1 inch thick ring binder full of stuff I have downloaded off the net for my 510 and that is where the geocities link came from on the above subject. That exact address is what is on the bottom of the pages I have. Guess the site is not active.....dunno. Anyway, there are a lot of things that a fella can use to keep their rides running.......

scott

kt

Post by kt » Tue Jan 07, 2003 4:29 pm

BECK/ARNLEY
BRAKE DRUM
Part Number: 083-2030

This is what I found on PartsAmerica.com using a 1978 280Z.
From the picture, it looks like a good match. I guess I can't really
tell until I buy it, and try it on. Its going for $120, sounds a bit
expensive compared to your $60 you mentioned.

Image

User avatar
S Allen
Site Admin
Posts: 4021
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:57 pm
Location: Knoxville, IA(Lake Redrock)Antioch, CA(Winter Months)
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

RE:Rear Drums

Post by S Allen » Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:42 pm

KT,

Go to a Pick-N-Pull or a U-Pull It first and spend $10.00 or $15.00 for one to try it out. You may even be able to pick up a set that has some life left in them. I am going to get around to trying the drums someday. Shop around. I got mine reasonable from the local Napa auto parts store. Scott and I are pretty darn sure they will fit but I have not actually tried it out yet.

Steve

TR

Rear Drums or Disks?

Post by TR » Wed Jan 08, 2003 12:54 am

There is a site that lists all of the Beck-Arnley part numbers that may be applied to a roadster.

http://www.geocities.com/spl311rdst/par ... slist.html

Unfortunately, no mention as to the rear brake drum.

As for the 12mm vs 7/16" diameters of the rear axle studs on the 510, 240-280Z vs Roadsters-The difference in diameter is only .035". I am not sure what the clearance from stud to hole is, but I would bet that if you are careful adjusting the pad tension and rotate the wheel you will end up no more off center than if you had applied a stock drum in a hurry. If you notice a surging feeling when braking there may be an issue but I would bet it could be worked out (maybe rotate the wheel with the e-brake snug and the lug nuts less snug ((car on jacks!)) then retorque).

Does anyone want to sell one of their rear axle assemblies? I might be interested...

As for the disc conversion mentioned many places on the web...I have looked into it and have designed the necessary custom mounting brackets to hold the calipers. The design is sitting at my favorite shop awaiting CNC time. I plan on working out the e-brake issues later, seems very feasible with one or two more custom pieces. The brakes are big and bulky, but the benefits of disc over drum are worth it. Oh ya, the rotors are only 30 each and complete calipers are about 100. For a bit more money, I bet a Wilwood 510 kit could be adapted much more easily. I'll post again when I get them working. It is low priority right now...>>TR

User avatar
S Allen
Site Admin
Posts: 4021
Joined: Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:57 pm
Location: Knoxville, IA(Lake Redrock)Antioch, CA(Winter Months)
Model: 1500/1600
Year: Low Windshield-64-67.5

RE:240Z Rear Drums

Post by S Allen » Sat Feb 01, 2003 10:02 pm

240Z rear drums fit fine on the spare rearend I have lying around. I finally got around to trying it out. There may be something we are missing but they do fit just fine!

Steve