PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

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Linda
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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by Linda » Wed May 08, 2019 11:26 am

Check with Skip Miller in Pasadena, Miller Sports and Imports if you want to get answers right away. He has worked on Roadsters since new. A wealth of info.
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jrusso07
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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by jrusso07 » Wed May 08, 2019 1:11 pm

As I think about what else could it be, I am wondering if the oil return path (galleys) are partially clogged keeping too much oil on the cam and followers - and it takes the path of least resistance to the catch can...

After running engine to oil pressure, shut it down and remove cam cover and see how much oil is sitting on the head. Should be just a trace on all surfaces. Not puddles or oil that fills the recesses in the oil channels in the head.

There is a diagram of oil flow in the shop manuals available on this site (I think)
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ApexArbitrage
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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by ApexArbitrage » Sat May 11, 2019 9:40 pm

Thanks everyone for your help and support so far!

I spoke with Micahel of Roadsterwerx who said that my problem may be one of three things:
  • - A broken valve stem
    - A head gasket leak
    - Some sort of crack in the head
...but it's probably not the piston rings.

I'll do compression leakdown tests to figure it out hopefully this week as everyone else suggested. Michael said that 135+ psi (where it was when the PO had it) is fine provided that it's uniform across the cylinders. However, 150psi is the target for a rebuilt 2000.

Will report back after the tests...
Max | Orange County, CA
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2014 Porsche Cayman S "Fandral"
2011 Porsche Cayenne S "Volstag"

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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by ApexArbitrage » Sat May 18, 2019 6:25 pm

Here's an update and unfortunately not a good one for me...

Compression test results: 137|92|92|135
Leakdown results: 70|78|78|70

No visible leaks from the cylinder head or valves.
Valve stem seals also look fine:
ValveStems.jpg

Valve clearance looks good:
ValveClerance.jpg

The air pressure is coming from the bottom, from under the cylinder head where the timing chain is, not from the intake or exhaust valves.
PressureCheck2.jpg

We also applied new FIPG to the baffle, but that didn't do much as you'd expect.
newBaffleFIPG.jpg


Seems like there is at least a piston ring problem, even though they were replaced in 2017 by PO. Maybe because he didn't hone the cylinders (or do anything else at all) as @nismou20 said. In the thick receipt book I got I don't have anything from a machine shop.

Anyways it looks an engine refresh/re-rebuild is in order. This isn't something I'm going to attempt on my own (to prevent exactly the outcome I'm at now). So what would you all say is a fair price for labor? My mechanic quoted me $2-3,000 to do it right, including using his machine shop.
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Max | Orange County, CA
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2014 Porsche Cayman S "Fandral"
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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by nismou20 » Sat May 18, 2019 7:19 pm

I recently purchased $1100 in parts for the bottom end, pistons, bearings, seals, gaskets. Labor on rebore block,honing, hot tank, polishing crank, Jackshaft was $370. My head was refreshed a couple years ago for $220 and all valves were ok. That’s $1700 in parts alone. So, $2500-$3000 total including Machinist’s labor to me sounds reasonable. I skinpped on a few things so my total in parts would have been closer to $2000 alone. Good luck with yours as pics of the engine bay look to be a nice car.

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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by datsunrides » Sat May 18, 2019 8:37 pm

Cylinder honing would have nothing to do with breaking rings. If the rings broke it was probably due to not checking end gap and or if the original pistons were reused, the carbon was not cleaned out of the ring lands.
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ApexArbitrage
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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by ApexArbitrage » Sat May 18, 2019 8:53 pm

nismou20 wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:19 pm
Good luck with yours as pics of the engine bay look to be a nice car.
Thanks! Here's my "hello world post" with pics of the car. Bought it hoping it'd be turnkey as described but that's not what I got!
Max | Orange County, CA
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2014 Porsche Cayman S "Fandral"
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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by ApexArbitrage » Sat May 18, 2019 8:57 pm

datsunrides wrote:
Sat May 18, 2019 8:37 pm
Cylinder honing would have nothing to do with breaking rings.
...and that's why I'm not going to do this rebuild myself. At least I've been learning a lot along the way, although the tuition has been pricey!

Image
Max | Orange County, CA
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1969 SRL311 "Fairlady Sif"
2014 Porsche Cayman S "Fandral"
2011 Porsche Cayenne S "Volstag"

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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by Gregs672000 » Sun May 19, 2019 12:28 pm

If the bores were not honed then the rings probably didn't seat (seal) well. Since it appears that limited or no machine work was done, all clearances and condition are in question, but you may come out ok for parts that can be reused, so go through your receipts and post what was new... chains, gears, bearings etc. While it will need to be disassembled, it's possible that you will need only a hone and new rings and some gaskets... fingers crossed. Bottom line though, you're mechanic will be able to tell you what's what...
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Datrock
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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by Datrock » Sun May 19, 2019 2:25 pm

Probably a long shot but could it be possible that the PO could have installed the rings upside down. I know that some brands it matters, others may not. Bill

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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by C.Costine » Mon May 20, 2019 5:28 am

[googlevideo][/googlevideo]
Datrock wrote:
Sun May 19, 2019 2:25 pm
Probably a long shot but could it be possible that the PO could have installed the rings upside down. I know that some brands it matters, others may not. Bill

My opinion is that it could very well matter. Some rings can't go in upside down, because of the way the groove is machined, or because of a tiny peg that is in the groove that also makes you put the opening in the correct place. I installed new rings in my '67 recently and each had the top marked. If upside down they would not hold compression as well.
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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by spl310 » Mon May 20, 2019 9:29 am

If the ends aren't staggered, you lose compression as well.
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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by 2mAn » Mon May 20, 2019 10:33 am

Max if you have the space and some tools, I would encourage you to dive in. You may not know completely whats going on but in the process you can learn so much about these cars.

Ive wrenched a little here and there on my cars, but this is my first Roadster and Ive repeatedly jumped in and it has been rewarding when its all back together running great. I currently have my cylinderhead off and am going to be putting it back together soon. Im extremely nervous about it, but taking my time, asking the more knowledgeable people here and being patient has paid dividends

Either way you go, theres going to be pluses and minuses so its a matter of the path you want to take to the end goal. Bummer that you're having to deal with this now, so early in your purchase
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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by C.Costine » Mon May 20, 2019 3:37 pm

If you are thinking of diving in consider that the machine shop does the heavy lifting. That is once you have the motor lifted out. You take the head to them for at least resurfacing, but they can tell you if it needs a valve job or not. When you take them the block they will evaluate the condition of your bores, the crank and the cam and lifters, and the block itself. If the bores need attention they will address that with just a hone or bore and new pistons if needed. You can have them source the new parts needed, and save you money on them too. The biggest thing is that you know that everything that you are getting is properly matched, so that it will go together properly. If you do the dis-assembly yourself you can take all the pics that you want to insure that you will be able to get it all back together right.
located in Chester NH
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Re: PCV / Oil Catch Can Trouble

Post by Gregs672000 » Mon May 20, 2019 6:23 pm

I agree with above, if you want to do it yourself we're here to support you. There are tools that need to be purchased however, so consider that expense as well.
Greg Burrows
'67 2000 #588
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