Does not want to start

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ARowe84
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Does not want to start

Post by ARowe84 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:43 pm

I have a 69 1600. Has East Coast Roadster’s electronic ignition which is about a half a year old. Car always would start right away. After running i would barely have to turn the key and it would start. The problem is after a drive on Easter I noticed it was taking excessive cranking to start once run. Whereas before it’d start right away. Only thing I’ve recently changed is the spark plugs to ngks. I tapped them to spec. When it does start after lots of cranking it runs smoothly and the engine sounds great. When it cranks it doesn’t sputter or anything. Any advice on how to troubleshoot? Thanks!
1969 1600
Santa Rosa, Ca.

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jrusso07
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by jrusso07 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:12 pm

Put old plugs back in if you have them and see if the easy start returns. I always have had good luck with the NGK plugs. I did have a similar problem when I put new Champion plugs in. Switch back to NGK. I Have a car with e-dizzy an it starts on the slightest movement of the crank when warm. I wish it cranked a few turns first to get oil flowing
Joe

1969 SRL311 - Solex
1970 SPL311 - U20 mod
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Toptech360
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by Toptech360 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:17 pm

I second jrussos advise, that's a good start point. Which specific ngk plugs did you use? Your symptoms seem coincidental but also a little odd for just spark bolts lol.
Dan
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ARowe84
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by ARowe84 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:35 pm

I agree that would have been a good starting point. I got the ngk bpr6es-11. Hoping that would help allow the am radio to play with less interference. Unfortunately the spark plugs from before got tossed.
1969 1600
Santa Rosa, Ca.

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Gregs672000
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by Gregs672000 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:03 pm

Just a thought, but make sure you didn't cross a plug wire...
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ARowe84
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by ARowe84 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:37 pm

By cross a plug wire do you mean from the distributor to the wrong cylinder? I was careful to make sure they are correct. When it does decide to run it is smooth. Could the problem be with the floats in the carburetor? When I was getting the car running originally I never took the bowls apart because I didn’t have new gaskets and didn’t want it to leak. I’m wondering if the floats could be the problem but just guessing.
1969 1600
Santa Rosa, Ca.

C.Costine
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by C.Costine » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:55 am

ARowe84 wrote:
Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:37 pm
By cross a plug wire do you mean from the distributor to the wrong cylinder? I was careful to make sure they are correct. When it does decide to run it is smooth. Could the problem be with the floats in the carburetor? When I was getting the car running originally I never took the bowls apart because I didn’t have new gaskets and didn’t want it to leak. I’m wondering if the floats could be the problem but just guessing.
A float problem would show up in taking a spark plug reading. If a float on one carb was not working correctly the plugs on the corresponding cylinders would be dry or wetter compared to the other two plugs.
located in Chester NH
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notoptoy
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by notoptoy » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:26 am

The beauty of the EI distributor is that it typically either works, or it doesn't, from an electrical standpoint. (Mechanical advance, and mechanical failure not included in that statement). So if it is firing at all, it is likely NOT the EI or matchbox on the EI.
Therefore I would look at plugs, plug wires - did a terminal on the wire become dislodged, or is one loose, are the wires in good shape etc., the cap itself, and possibly the coil, then move on to fuel. A good thing to do is to run the car in "total darkness" and look for arcing or random sparking around the ignition components - I have seen coils arcing, bad wires, cracked caps etc., this way.
When there is a change in the way the car runs, always look at what you most recently changed first as a cause - then move to other systems.
"When all else fails, force prevails!" Ummm, we're gonna need a bigger hammer here.

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redroadster
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by redroadster » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:11 am

Sparking with a plug ayong on the VC and grounded ?. Or with a spark tester?
Did it flood before or after? Easy to pull them and crank over coil wire out

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SLOroadster
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by SLOroadster » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:18 pm

Check your chokes. You may have one that is stuck. Reach under each of the carbs and push/pull up on the choke nozzle and see if either one moves.

Will
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ARowe84
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by ARowe84 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:06 pm

I noticed the fuel filter didn’t have much fuel in it so I replaced it. After some cranking it filled up and sure enough started to run. Thought it was fixed. Then Ran for awhile and died. Now the new filter appears to have hardly any fuel in it even after cranking. Is this normal? Should the level of fuel in the filter fluctuate. Maybe the pump needs to be replaced/rebuilt.
1969 1600
Santa Rosa, Ca.

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spags1986
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by spags1986 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:15 pm

Same exact issue with my 1600. The mechanical fuel pump was bad so I replaced it with an electric one and haven't had the issue since.
1967.5 2000 (In Frame off restoration)
1966 1600
1969 2000

ARowe84
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by ARowe84 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 6:52 pm

Plan on keeping mine mechanical. Does anybody know if the aftermarket $59 pump dean sells are any good? I can’t imagine paying $240 for the oem one. May try just rebuilding it.
1969 1600
Santa Rosa, Ca.

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fj20spl311
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by fj20spl311 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:34 pm

ARowe84 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:06 pm
I noticed the fuel filter didn’t have much fuel in it so I replaced it. After some cranking it filled up and sure enough started to run. Thought it was fixed. Then Ran for awhile and died. Now the new filter appears to have hardly any fuel in it even after cranking. Is this normal? Should the level of fuel in the filter fluctuate. Maybe the pump needs to be replaced/rebuilt.
If the filter is clean, it will not have very much fuel in the bowl. As the paper get dirty, the level raises to the clean part of the filter.
Once its full, it needs to be replaced.
Phil
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Gregs672000
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Re: Does not want to start

Post by Gregs672000 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:48 am

It is sounding more and more like a fuel delivery problem IF you have confirmed firing order. Consider having another fuel source handy, like some starter fluid that you can lightly spray at the carbs to either see if it will fire on that or to keep it running if it starts dying while your testing things. If it will "run" on starter fluid you know it's getting spark and it's likely a fuel issue. You could also run your fuel pump output line to a gas can, crank the motor and see what volume it puts out.

Re plug wire crossing, firing order is 1,3,4,2 counter clockwise on dizzy. You can be off and run the engine, but it won't want to start easily and has the symptoms you report. My car would do 80mph with crossed plug wires. Since the last thing you did was with spark and plug wires, start there.
Greg Burrows
'67 2000 #588
Tacoma, WA