Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

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Geistfahrar
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Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by Geistfahrar » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:11 pm

Well, I am kinda at the crossroads at the repair & upgrades to my roadster. I still need to upgrade the water tower to finish the cooling system, and will probably go to the EI Dizzy next, unless I can satisfy myself that I am on the right track with the alt swap.

The problem that I am struggling with, is the availability of reliable out-of-the-box reman acdelco 10SI alts. Google searches with the proper key words/phrases ( 321-39, 334-2114A & '78 305V8* Camaro ) produced dozens of sellers, from specialty auto parts shops ( like O'Reilly ) to sellers offering the replacement alt under the eBay or Amazon indirect route. The problem with all the online sellers, is that the purchaser reviews are mainly negative, which I suspect is probably due to the fact that the cores available for reman have been cycled through the customer base so many times, that few good 10SI cases remain.

The warranty & return policies generally require the purchaser to get the alt into his/her car as quickly as possible, and test it immediately, in order to come up with a satisfactory replacement. If I were certain about the amount of time I need to make the necessary mods to my smog supports, plus additional parts, I would go ahead & spring for the GM replacement, but the variations I have observed from forum denizens making the changeover, have me goosey.
Particularly, differences in mods to the lower mount worry me. ( are the early, late 1600 & 2000 all different? ). I use as primary references, the pics submitted in the Tech Wiki, plus "Shifty's" GM swap for "Zippy".

The text of many of the posts on the swap saga, indicate that the poster first swapped over the original roadster alt to the pass side, before upgrading to the GM part. I am currently inclined to go that route myself, in order to take a "leisurely" approach to obtaining a good GM unit. I have kept all the original parts, the stock voltage regulator is still mounted, & no mods have been made to the stock wiring harness. I have not added ( nor intend to add ) more electrical loads to the system, so I can live with 30 amps for quite a while.

Accordingly, I would appreciate any advice on mods required to make a stock swap, using an old ( but working ) stock alt & mounting hardware, plus the smog mounts from a '69 2000 roadster. Many thanks in advance.

Garry
Location Southern Cal
69' 2000 Roadster, being repaired by O/O
2001 Mercedes ML430; Was Wife's ride, now Grocery-hauler
2005 Jeep Wrangler X; Was Motor-home Toad, now local shopper
2005 33' Dolphin motor-home; Was vacation home, now guest house

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Linda
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by Linda » Tue Mar 19, 2019 10:44 pm

Why not just get a kit from JT (JT68) www.datsunrestorationproducts.com or others that have all the bolts and mounts and whatnot. I never really liked the GM unit as it looks too big, so the newer units, like the Denso, seem more aesthetically pleasing. But your choice. At least it would be less work and everything would line up better. Plus you get great tech support from most vendors, like JT.
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Nissanman
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by Nissanman » Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:34 pm

Could you get a junkyard unit to use as a mock up before spending $$$ on a refurbished unit with a warranty?
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by greydog » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:34 am

Highly suggest you buy the alty at augozone. Lifetime warranty is nice to have.
The basic process in the Wiki is sound but minor adjustments will need to be made to suit actual components.
Is there a specific concern about the mounting?
I have a gm on our 69 1600 and a Denso on the 68 2000. Both work well but neither is exactly like the Wiki lays out.
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bobd
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by bobd » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:27 am

+1 one on the lifetime warranty, got mine from Advance Auto Parts. I originally mounted it on the left & had to reclock it when I moved it to the right. Years later, when it went bad, they gave me a properly clocked one with no questions asked.

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FergO2k
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by FergO2k » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:35 am

My voltage regulator died, so my swap was needed pronto.
I went down to local autoparts place, sells hot rod parts to DIY'ers, and told them what I was doing.
Had them in stock, when I mentioned the 30 amp in-line fuse they walked me over to a rotating display and picked off the 2-3 pieces I needed.
They just said, "if it doesn't fit right, just bring it back kinda clean and we'll help you find the right one".
Headlights went from kinda yellow to white, BINGO! Never a problem to date.
I gt a long bolt, and shifted the alt to alignment with the pulley by using sockets as spacers. (hey, they are shiny!)
Once in place, now you know size needed, so have nicer ones made or go searching in Pick-A-Part.
Like Linda said, the GM alt is slightly out of scale to the roadster engine, but I added other interesting do-dads in the engine bay as distractions, (like Guinness can skin wrapped round the coil) so no one notices the alt anymore.
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Gregs672000
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by Gregs672000 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:37 am

I think I paid $65 for my chromed GM one wire many years ago. It's seen thousands of miles, had a bad resister once, quickly fixed at an auto electric shop, otherwise trouble free. I think the chromed version looks fine and does not have the pebbled look that the stock GM can have. I do see there are other more attractive alts as options. Can't help on the mount as I have an early car.

From a performance and overall running view, the EI dizzy is more important than relocating the alt. The main reason to move it to the other side is to help it live longer instead of being baked by the exhaust manifold. An alternative would be to add some heat shielding to the alternator. There are many malleable heat shield products that will wrap around the alt and greatly reduce its heat exposure. Could probably be easily secured using the mounting bolts or even a zip tie or two. Just make sure there is no way for the wiring to ground through the heat shield, so either get a non-conductive material or otherwise cover up any exposed connections if needed.

Just a thought!
Greg Burrows
'67 2000 #588
Tacoma, WA

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nismou20
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by nismou20 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:22 pm

Garry, Looks like you have a 69 hi so if you have the original smog brackets you are 50% there. This seemed very overwhelming at first but I tackled it in a afternoon with a trip to HD. Got my GM Alt from Napa which are about $50 and this is a pretty straight forward swap. By far the only critical job is aligning the pulleys for fan belt by trial/error with various spacers/washers. Mine came with the double belt pulley which actually allows me to use less spacing on the front timing cover. There’s less stress on the bolt this way. One hole on the triangle has to be enlarged for the long bolt you will end up buying. I added another 10 ga wire from the original location around the front and to new location via a 30 amp fuse holder. The pic of belt alignment looks crooked but it’s the camera. It really aligns perfectly.
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Geistfahrar
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by Geistfahrar » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:55 pm

Thanks for all the suggestions folks ---

I am not locked into the GM alt, but it seemed like the most popular choice, so I did most of my research into that area. ( I had looked at at JT's offerings previously, however ). I really believe the "lifetime warranty" no longer exists, as the best my searches could find was 24 months.

Fergus struck a nerve, when he mentioned his blown regulator. I now believe it is too risky for me to assume that my stock parts will still work, after sitting idle on the car for seven years. Better to do the swap once, & forget about a two-phase job. I have pretty much decided to do the EC Roadster EI Dizzy next, & tackle the alt as the last item in the engine compartment.

Nismou20 posted some great pics of his installation. The top-right shot, showing the belt alignment relative to the adjusting arm gave me a lot more confidence. Since I too have the double-groove pully, & now have no need for the front groove, a longer v-belt, driving both the alt & water pump makes the most sense. I guess the reason "Shifty" used the front groove, plus two more spacers, was because he had the early-car lower mount, & didn't want to cut the nose back.

Regarding the late-car mount that I have ( and believe Nismou20 has on his setup ), I am hoping that only shimming it forward is required, rather than trimming the nose. If a trim is needed, I will have to pull my fuel pump, as I cannot reach the lower bolt on the mount with any of my existing tools.

As for choosing the best vendor for supplying the GM alt, when I get to that point, I will probably go with either Autozone or Amazon, as they have the
easiest return/replacement paths. All vendors specify a core charge ( same core as the GM part ), so I will go the cheapest alt+core route.

Garry
Location Southern Cal
69' 2000 Roadster, being repaired by O/O
2001 Mercedes ML430; Was Wife's ride, now Grocery-hauler
2005 Jeep Wrangler X; Was Motor-home Toad, now local shopper
2005 33' Dolphin motor-home; Was vacation home, now guest house

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Gregs672000
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by Gregs672000 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:34 pm

Glad you got it planned out! Check around for a chrome version... I checked mine for a part number but there's nothing on it. I think you'll like the look better and they're not that much more vs the standard. I found several listed that looked about right but they were all well over 60 amp.
Greg Burrows
'67 2000 #588
Tacoma, WA

Geistfahrar
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by Geistfahrar » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:51 pm

Back again for more input on the mods to the smog supports ( late model 2000 ). I got the impression that nismou20 found a "suitable" 7" long bolt that would fit the hole in the lower ( rear ) mount and an enlarged hole n the front ( triangle ) mount that attached to the timing-train cover.

The hole in my rear mount is 3/8", so the 1/4" x 7" bolt that went with the smog pump was pretty sloppy in that mount, but fit the pump & triangle just fine. My understanding of the 10SI mounting hole, from a downloaded J&N Auto Electric parts explosion, is that the standard SAE dimension is 3/8". It should not be necessary, therefore, to bore out either the mount or the alt, provided that a 5/16" x 7" long bolt can be found.

The problem is --- no matter how much I monkey with my search wording, I can't find such a bolt. Some folks have used a threaded rod, with nuts on both ends to complete the lash-up, but with no detail provided, I have no idea about the bolt diameter, or what grade bolt was used. I would presume a grade-5 bolt would be necessary, otherwise a fully-threaded mild-steel rod would stretch too much,

I am not presently at a "critical point" in the conversion, but will be after I get the EI dizzy in & my taxes paid. All guidance ( and hopefully, more pictures ) in the meantime will be appreciated.

Garry
Location Southern Cal
69' 2000 Roadster, being repaired by O/O
2001 Mercedes ML430; Was Wife's ride, now Grocery-hauler
2005 Jeep Wrangler X; Was Motor-home Toad, now local shopper
2005 33' Dolphin motor-home; Was vacation home, now guest house

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spl310
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by spl310 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:22 am

McMaster.com has you covered. 5/16"x18 or 5/16"x24 in 7" length are readily available.
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Datsuns4Me
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by Datsuns4Me » Wed Mar 27, 2019 7:46 am

I just bought a grade 8 bolt from the local hardware store. Take your lower mount to check fitment.
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Geistfahrar
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by Geistfahrar » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:43 pm

Ouch!

Thanks for the info on the 7" bolt. I really am "search challenged". I re-visited my original search texts, and McMaster-Carr never fell out of any of them. By progressively reducing the detail of the desired bolt, I finally got a google hit from a simple "hex bolt' search, It looks like the Google algorithm favors end-of-the-product-chain vendors, when too much detail is provided.

If the replacement bolt were 3/8" or larger, I would choose the 18 TPI coarse version, but for a 7" long 5/16" bolt, I believe the 24 TPI fine version would be a better choice, since the alt lash-up is subject to considerable vibration. I am not a Mechanical Engineer, so I might be wrong.

Garry
Location Southern Cal
69' 2000 Roadster, being repaired by O/O
2001 Mercedes ML430; Was Wife's ride, now Grocery-hauler
2005 Jeep Wrangler X; Was Motor-home Toad, now local shopper
2005 33' Dolphin motor-home; Was vacation home, now guest house

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nismou20
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Re: Revisit alternator moves to passenger side

Post by nismou20 » Wed Mar 27, 2019 2:50 pm

Garry, I forgot to mention boring out the aluminum mount hole to accept the new long bolt. I also shortened the bolt down.