New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

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Gregs672000
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by Gregs672000 »

Congrats and kiddos for doing it yourself. Yes, you can run into trouble (see my own hurt Datsun posts!) but the satisfaction when it's working is worth the risk and challenge.

When we get some idea on timing, fuel delivery, points condition etc we will have a better idea.
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by ct06033 »

Okay, so I found like an hour today to go and try out some ideas with the car and.... found out the battery had drained. So that is charging now.

In the mean time, i did find TDC on (the right) Cyl 1 and checked my wires. Even though I mentally confused the cylinders, I did, in fact, have the wires in the right order. This does not mean the dog gear is correct but I did not have time to check this. That, and the timing light will happen the next chance I find to work on the car.
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by Gregs672000 »

Ya, it really doesn't make any difference to the engine which (front or rear) is "#1" as long as the spark happens at the right time in the stroke and valve position (all closed, next event is the exhaust valve to open).
I know how frustrating and sometimes disheartening stuff like this can be, especially since you just built this and it's your first try. I want to reassure you that no matter what the issue is, we will help you and it will get resolved.
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by ct06033 »

Okay, so I was able to play around with the timing light. I was also able to check the distributor.

The distributor is pre-smog with the 7.5 stamped on the weight.

Using the timing light, I was getting about 7 degrees at TDC @ 2000rpm, from what I understand, I need to be at zero degrees at the distributor and 7 degrees at the crank so, between the second and third line?

I also think i need a new vacuum advance as my timing was not stable.

I ended up rebuilding my breaker plate since i was messing with it a bit and the sandwiched layers sorta came out of alignment (big oops). I also replaced the points as my old one was... worse for the wear and gapped the points to .018in

And now Im not getting any spark. Tomorrow I plan to replace the two wires going to the points as I think they are original, I cant think of any other reason I would loose spark from replacing the points. From what I understand, the breaker plate has nothing to do with electronics and just allows the vacuum advance to work?
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by notoptoy »

If all you did was clean and rebuild the breaker plate, Then I would suspect the small braided ground wire, or the power wire from the connector to the points is bad or improperly installed. Also you would like to set your timing to 16° before top dead center, preferably in about 750 RPM.
"When all else fails, force prevails!" Ummm, we're gonna need a bigger hammer here.

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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by C.Costine »

"the sandwiched layers sorta came out of alignment (big oops)" Sounds like this could be a problem. Did you get the little balls back in the correct places so that roatation is slick and smooth?
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by Gregs672000 »

I'm sure the harbor freight timing light has a dial back feature. I don't have a car I can check mine on at the moment, but as I recall you set the light to desired timing on the dial (16 degrees in this case with a non smog distributor) and see what it shows on your crank while running. Adjust the distributor until the mark is showing just past the 3rd mark to the right and lock it down. If you then dial back the light it should go to the zero mark. If you Rev the engine up it should smoothly advance to about 36 or so degrees. Understand, the distributor will add advance the faster it turns. The amount is based on the internals. The early dizzy was set at 16 initial and it added in about 18 degrees. The smog dizzy was set at 0 and added 38 degrees, all internal.

Please read any instructions or get online to confirm as I'm a bit dizzy from my second covid shot and may not be thinking clearly. But if your timing was at 7 initial before that's likely your problem.
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by jrusso07 »

Greg, glad you got the vaccine! Still in a holding pattern here... On the timing light, I have an old Craftsman with the dial back. I set the dial to 16 BTDC (non smog) and confirm that the crank is at 0 degrees (TDC) by adjusting the distributor base. Once at TDC, if I move the dial on the light to 0 the timing at the crank will be 16 BTDC.

So, if you want to measure the timing where it is now, Light up the crank and turn dial until crank is at 0 (TDC), Read the timing off the dial on the light (Inductive clamp on #1 plug wire).
Joe

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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by Gregs672000 »

Thanks Joe!
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by redroadster »

You want to see oil pressure at top before starting .
Best to crank , without plugs in it on and off for 5 min
I just static timed my engines in this scenario
I recommend starting on 1 cyl initially
I look a 3000 vr 4 YT videos people posting about working / ? Fixing them ,slot as I work on the at Mitsu
There was a guy that had a long sitting 3000 GT VR4
He started reved up a min , then a slight tick then to full rod knock , he turned a possible ride into a parts car that quick , it the burgundy one, he sold for 1k , looks like he pulled the vid of his screw up
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by C.Costine »

2X what redroadster said. Due to the metering it takes considerable time for oil to get onto the rocker arm shaft. Mine galled so I had to replace the whole assembly. This was after spinning the pump with a shaft down through the distributor mount. While spinning the pump a good amount of oil splash took place so I left off after maybe three minutes thinking that it would be enough.
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by ct06033 »

Okay everyone, Thanks so much for all the input!

So answer everyone, I did get the little balls back in the correct place and lined everything up the way it came off. I have not had a chance to replace the ground or power wire yet. I will likely have some time this weekend to play around some more. se

Thanks Gregs672000, i will use your instructions this weekend when I set timing and let you how it goes!

As for Redroadster, I am already well past that point. At this point, the engine has been running for several hours time since the rebuild. Oil pressure builds fine and no knock. just rough running and hard to start once warm.
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by Gregs672000 »

I'm glad you're finding support with our family, such a great bunch. Do see what Joe posted regarding the proper use of the dial back timing light. My engine is apart right now and I often don't fully remember exactly how it works until I'm messing with it. Regardless, we'll get you running!
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by ct06033 »

Gregs672000 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:17 pm I'm glad you're finding support with our family, such a great bunch. Do see what Joe posted regarding the proper use of the dial back timing light. My engine is apart right now and I often don't fully remember exactly how it works until I'm messing with it. Regardless, we'll get you running!
I did, ill try out his instructions then. This community has definitely been mostly great through my ownership, and im really excited to be running well and on the road!
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Re: New 1600 rebuild - Difficulty Starting

Post by ct06033 »

Okay, so I got the distributor running using a pertronix. I set the carbs at one full turn from full lean. And it started from cold immediately. I was working on setting the timing when it started dying... I have not been able to get it to start again after that. I checked the spark plugs, they were white so I'm running lean. Set another half turn there. I am still getting spark but no combustion.
2016 Audi TTS
2005 Honda S2000
1968 Datsun 1600