Element Fire Extinguisher - Better than nothing ?

[23yrRebuild]

I was watching MotorTrend's Two Guys Garage this morning, when they advertised this fire extinguisher. To me, it looked interesting enough share, and hopefully gather other member's thoughts and opinions. I've never had an extinguisher in any car I've ever owned ( I know....bad boy...). After reading about Greg's experience trying to put his car fire out, I wanted to look into getting something effective should I ever need it. Here are links:

From MotorTrend:
https://elementfire.com/blogs/media/ele ... age-review

https://www.motortrend.com/features/ele ... er-review/

From the manufacturer:
https://elementfire.com/

Mike

[Gregs672000]

Hi Mike, I glad you're looking into this. I can say, from my recent experience it can be quite the battle to put out a car fire, especially with the hood closed. Had I not had a garden hose still hooked up (all others had been capped for the winter) my house and then my Datsun would have been next. I was amazed at how easily the fire would restart or resist. Subsequently I've been looking at extinguishers. I carry a very old small halon extinguisher that actually fits in my glove box for the Datsun, but halon was outlawed due to ozone damage and they have switched to halotron, something similar but not damaging. Those typically run $150 or a LOT more. Dry powder is the typical (B and C recommended for cars) and they are generally inexpensive, effective if you have good access, but the powder corrodes the paint etc and makes a huge mess. There are some "water-based" ones that are supposedly OK for electrical fires and are not corrosive but there's controversy as to whether they are OK or dangerous for electrical, though that may be more for house electrical fires vs car wiring. The manufacturers show pics putting out house electrical fires but in the comments section one firefighter stated that one might electrocute themselves with the water-based if the power was still on and felt this "safe for electrical fires" claim was misleading.

Ultimately I chose to purchase both, getting a 4 pack of dry powder (3 ABC for general fires and 1 BC for the kitchen/car) and a 4 pack of water-based to carry in the cars (add one to the Datsun's halon, likely mounted in the trunk, the others for our daily drivers). Brands on Amazon that I purchased were Ougist for the water based and Kiddie for the powder. I decided the cost of the halotron extinguishers prohibited me from getting enough for as many places as I might need one.

I had not seen the Element extinguishers and they do present an interesting option. At $90 each they're less expensive than entry level halotron extinguishers but to compare I got 4 water-based ones for $40. Of course, when things are on fire the only thing that matters is whether it puts the fire out or not! The water-based have a 4 year shelf life, while I would think the Element might be good for a lot longer given there's no seals to leak, etc. They are being delivered today, and if I have any issues (arrive leaking etc) I'll post. I would love to see some side by side comparisons to all these different types of extinguishers. My only other experience with a car fire was in my Datsun PU when a wire shorted under the dash. I carried a dry chemical one and a 2 second blast and disconnecting the battery killed that fire. I was able to clean things up with no corrosion issues being that it was in the interior.

Thanks for posting... be safe and carry SOMETHING you all!

[DAC21]

Made in Italy......there is a car joke in there somewhere LOL!

Having said that what I don't care for with the Elementfire is the stand off distance. From the video you a need to be pretty close to on top of the flame to use it effectively while a pressurized system gives you some distance for your protection. Even the smallish 4lb canisters typical for a car gives you 5 feet or so off standoff distance. I guess having one of each in the car would be something to consider giving you options based on the size of the fire. I think the elementfire would be a good fit in the kitchen for a grease fire.

[Gregs672000]

I noted the same thing in the video I watched. Being able to stand off a bit is reassuring. I was very close to the car to gain access, spraying water on the front of my engine compartment while the front tires were exploding. I had to get closer because my hose must have had a twist in it and the pressure was down. At the time you don't know what's exploding and the thought of hot oil or burning fuel being splashed on me did cross my mind.

[23yrRebuild]

Greg and Dac, THANK YOU very much, for your insights on this subject. I think it might be a good thing to possibly build a knowledge base by encouraging anyone with experience, or knowledge of DIY firefighting to participate in this conversation. I certainly don't have any, and I would prefer not to acquire it "after the fact". Thanks in advance for anyone else's forthcoming contributions.
Mike

[david premo]

So to answer the question of type of extinguisher is best, an abc is good for upholstery, oils and fuel and electrical fires. The downside is the mess that they leave behind. My preference is the co2 extinguisher that is good for oil, fuels and electrical. They are not for upholstery or wood type items, but superior for not leaving any residue. The other part I like is the instant out factor as it displaces all the oxygen from the fire and cools whatever was burning in the process. Just an FYI on abc extinguishers, a is for standard burning materials upholstery etc, b is for oils and fuels and c is for electrical fires.

[rwmann]

Flagging pro and amateur sports car races, we ran with and used 20 pound dry chemical and purple-k bottles in a stand-off mode. If used on engine compartments, cleanups were problematic. As noted, the powders ate alloy parts like carbs and injection pumps. Purple-K was the best extinguishant but the most corrosive. Outdoor cleanup was not much of an issue, but that was in the ‘before’ days. Who knows, these days? EPA and DEC waivers required for use?

From decades of aviation operations experience, I am partial to halon. In the garage, these days, I maintain but have thankfully never had to use 5 pound and 2.5 pound halon 1211 bottles, nor the 1.25 pound halon 1211 bottles in each of the ‘fleet’. I did once use a 0.5 pound halon 1211 bottle to make quick work of putting down a stove-top fire.

In any event, I would avoid anything that leaves a residue. Type ABC extinguishers are awful in that respect. CO2 bottles leave no-residue but are very bulky, and never seemed to provide much hold-over. Halon when vaporized is heavier than air and settles, so provides some hold-over time in enclosed spaces. For that reason, I use an old 5 pound, temperature-triggered, ceiling mounted halon 1301 unit in the furnace/boiler room enclosure.

Whichever you choose, I hope you never have reason to use it.

[Gregs672000]

Really good discussion all! I just received my package today and all arrived intact. Unfortunately either Amazon or I got the order slightly wrong as I did not get the BC kitchen extinguisher and ended up with 4 ABC. The water based ones are smaller but large enough for what I would want to have in the car. Regarding electrical fires, it says "suitable for charged electrical fires - live line < 36kv" which suggests it can be a live line but then in "Cautions" it say "If there is an electrical fire, ensure the power source is turned off before using extinguisher." Not sure I'd want to use it to hose down my big screen TV, but I still feel I would use it on a car electrical system. Supposed to be good on grease fires so maybe a good kitchen choice. Thoughts? (Pic is showing it on a foot stool with my coffee cup for reference).

[Solex68]

Thanks for including the coffee cup in the photo, cause at first, I thought it was a rather larger extinguisher.

[redroadster]

In your garage /shop a welding blanket is a big help with a extinguisher, I ve fought a handful with the small extinguishers, you 1st want to back up 10' ,because they are higher pressure than the bigger ones that an auto shop should have ,they spray lower pres. But much volume and usually extinguish it quick
The high pressure will ,move in fresh air & blow gas around and spread the gas or fumes

[vorpal]

Thanks for including the coffee cup in the photo, cause at first, I thought it was a rather larger extinguisher.

Or a very large coffee cup!

We had a small fire in the engine bay on my red 67.5 when the electric fuel pump filled the cylinders with gas when we left the key on for a minute. We pulled the plugs and left it open and cranked it to remove the gas but someone didn't disconnect the coil (that was me)

It caught a little gas that had blooped out of a plug hole and we had a small flame going... fortunately we had an ABC 20# extinguisher handy. White dry foam everywhere. I vaccuumed up most of the residue and used the air compressor blaster to dislodge the rest. Took all afternoon.

No damage to the engine but we double check electrical now.

[fairlane292]

When my project is completed I will have both a fire blanket (like the ULINE 66" x 90") and a small extinguisher. In case of a fire it may be possible to first use the blanket before making a mess with the extinguisher. In any event, you'd have two good options.

[Gregs672000]

Today I saw an article comparing different aerosol fire extinguishers to a dry powder, deeming them less effective but still useful. One commenter referenced a particular company called Komodo-fire as "different," and their website has some interesting preventative products that those in fire prone areas may be interested in. They also have a line of aerosol extinguishers at a decent price for several ($90/4). I don't know if these are unique to them as the FAQ doesn't discuss them specifically vs their other products but some (all?) of their products are patented.

I just had the hulk of the X3 hauled off today... $200 and a free tow was a very good offer for the remainder. Very sad to see her go... it had been a good ride with many more miles left... bummer.