An honest discussion about roadster values

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Datsa 66

An honest discussion about roadster values

Post by Datsa 66 »

Recently I bid on a an ebay car that I thought was a good candidate for a regular "daily driver" roadster. I love my 67.5 2000 and it is not a garage queen, but I want to keep it in pristine shape and still be able to drive the canyons with all the dust and rocks they have. Anyhoo, I bid the car to 3000.00 which I thought was a good price as this car was a good runner with tired paint, dings and who know the condition of the body, engine, brakes- whatever.

It did not make reserve and so it did not sell. The owner emailed me and said he would take 4000.00 for the car. I wrote him back and said I could only offer 3000.00. I never heard from him again. We all saw the fire damaged care on ebay with the 5k asking price and such. People have asked me what I think my newly restored 67.5 2000 is worth and although I know it is worth 25-30k I also know I would not have a prayer to get that much for it.

I recently went to www.nadaguides.com and looked up the price for our cars. Without fail, the high retail tops at around 6-8k for our cars. As much as we would like the marquee to come up in value, I think the true value of these cars is our love for them, not their intrinsic value.

I am still looking for a good driver to buy and I will still keep my budet of 3000.00. I guess it may take a while :)


Andrew Murphy
SRL311-00489 (Not for sale at any price below six figures)
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spl310
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Post by spl310 »

This is a very complex issue. The same car that is worth $3000 on the west coast could be worth much more on the east coast. For that $3000 on the east coast, you can get a driver, but it will be rough. On the west coast, that car may be considered a parts car. The defining logic is the supply. The old saw about what a willing seller will take from a willing buyer holds true.

Looking at prices overall, there has been an increase of late. All of us have seen or heard about the $12,500 2000 that sold on Ebay a few weeks ago. Do I think it was worth that much - not quite. I am somewhat of a purist though, so the fact that it had emblems removed loses points with me. Do I think that the car was a very nice car, absolutely. I hesitate to put my thought on price on the car simply because it is not one that I personally want (I like low windshield cars - it was a high windshield). That does not take anything away from the car.

When I got back into Roadsters a few years ago, you could buy a decent driver for as little as $1500. I know because I passed on a few. Now that buys you a project car that "ran when it was parked" some time ago. The price you mentioned for a driver is on the lower end, but not out of the realm of reality - right now. I think that the prices will continue to climb though. The disappearance of new parts means that cars that could have been fixed are being parted out. Cars that lose their engines are more frequently being reengined with something else. That all will drive the "original" cars up.

Note that by original cars, I mean ones that are basically stock. A 2000 with a later block will generally not take a hit in value on the same scale that another car will due to the relative rarity of the 2000. For example, of the 67 2000s that I have seen sell since I got back into all of this, there was a FANTASTIC 2000 that sold for about $18,000. It was dead on, numbers matching. Another that was nice, but had a later block and some other minor mods sold for $16,000. The price difference did not (in my opinion) reflect the fact that the block was not numbers matching, but rather the overall condition. That car was simply not as nice as the other and had fewer options. If we were talking Corvettes or Mustangs, the story would be different.

I will go out on a limb here and post my opinion on values. These are general values and open to discussion and revision.

Parts cars - free - $1500 or so
Drivers (very rough) - $1500 - $2000
Drivers (poor to fair) - $2000 - $3000
Drivers (fair to nice) - $3000 - $5000
Drivers (very nice cars needing very little) $5000 - $8000
Fantastic cars that need almost nothing $8000 - $12000
Show cars - $12000 - whatever you can squeeze out of your wallet!!

I did not use the standard ratings of 1-5 that are common, but rather tried to put it how I see the cars value RIGHT NOW. Of course, some things would alter the values a bit. A single carb 1500 car would start out higher but end up lower because of the limited interest. A 2000 (all things being equal) generally gets more money than a 1600. A low windshield 1600 can get a little more money than a comparable high windshield 1600. The 67 2000 gets a little more money - but not as much as it seems to have in the past. Solex carbs really don't seem to alter value in an appreciable manner. Cars with documented history and low ownership or mileage get a premium over cars with unknown provenance. Cars with racing history command some stupid money - but the racers gotta have it! An original car (even with some minor bumps and bruises) can get more than a refinished car.

Let me give a frame of reference before I go. Tom Walter is known as a guru for these cars and virtually everyone that I know would love to have a car that he owned and went through - because it would be as "right" as it could be. When he sold his 2000, the buyer got a bargain. As I recall it went for $3800. That same car now would get double the money (I have seen it and how nice it is. Mike stole that car!!) It was not that long ago that he sold it.

Well, there you have it. My not too humble opinion. As I have said, everyone has a right to my opinion!! :wink:
"Wow, a Roadster!" Stuart Little

1967.5 2000
1967.5 2000
1964 1500
1964 1500
1967.5 1600
1968 chassis
2006 Acura MDX
2013 Volkswagen Jetta TDI wagon
1995 F350 Powerstroke!
More...
nking79

Post by nking79 »

This was something I tried to figure out about three months ago. I started making an Excel spreadsheet categorizing the cars by year and make (1600 or 2000, original or modified) and using a numbered system from 1 - 5 to describe the condition (1 - parts car, 3 daily driver in decent condition, 5 perfect show car).

I think we should all poll our resources and figure out what our cars are worth. Unfortunately, the prices that we'd be averaging in come from inexperienced e-bay sellers (fire damage car) as well as known professionals.

If we were to do this, we should start by having a defined numbering system to define the condition of the car. We should also ask those selling to rate the condition of the car and let us know how much it sold for.

One cool thing I thought of - if the demand for these cars goes up, maybe someone will start to manufacture parts for them, bringing down repair costs and upkeep costs...
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spl310
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Post by spl310 »

While it would be nice to think that the increase in price will spur new parts manufacture, it just would not make a lot of financial sense for most of the parts. There were only 40 - 60k of these made, so that is a remarkably small market to sell to. Especially when you consider that half or more have been junked or destroyed over the years....
"Wow, a Roadster!" Stuart Little

1967.5 2000
1967.5 2000
1964 1500
1964 1500
1967.5 1600
1968 chassis
2006 Acura MDX
2013 Volkswagen Jetta TDI wagon
1995 F350 Powerstroke!
More...
Guest

Post by Guest »

:cry:
Guest

Re: An honest discussion about roadster values

Post by Guest »

Solex67 wrote:Recently I bid on a an ebay car that I thought was a good candidate for a regular "daily driver" roadster. I love my 67.5 2000 and it is not a garage queen, but I want to keep it in pristine shape and still be able to drive the canyons with all the dust and rocks they have. Anyhoo, I bid the car to 3000.00 which I thought was a good price as this car was a good runner with tired paint, dings and who know the condition of the body, engine, brakes- whatever.

It did not make reserve and so it did not sell. The owner emailed me and said he would take 4000.00 for the car. I wrote him back and said I could only offer 3000.00. I never heard from him again. We all saw the fire damaged care on ebay with the 5k asking price and such. People have asked me what I think my newly restored 67.5 2000 is worth and although I know it is worth 25-30k I also know I would not have a prayer to get that much for it.

I recently went to www.nadaguides.com and looked up the price for our cars. Without fail, the high retail tops at around 6-8k for our cars. As much as we would like the marquee to come up in value, I think the true value of these cars is our love for them, not their intrinsic value.

I am still looking for a good driver to buy and I will still keep my budet of 3000.00. I guess it may take a while :)


Andrew Murphy
SRL311-00489 (Not for sale at any price below six figures)

Well I guess you are at it again.
You did this at the datsun roadster mailing list also.
Why are so fixated in the price of your roadster.
If you bought your roadster for bragging how expensive it is, you are in the wrong place.
People here love their cars not for how much they could sell it, but for many other things that I doubt you even know.
I wouldnt buy your car even if I had six figures...not that its even worth half that.

I cant believe you would even make up stories like bidding on a roadster just so you can talk about your car.
I checked on your so called bid. It never happened 67Solex.

To me all of these roadsters are priceless, so please get off this my roadster is worth more than yours attitude.
Datsa 66

Post by Datsa 66 »

You know what? I am sick to death of idiots like you who give me grief for being proud of my car. I earned every penny I put into it with a lot of hard work and I gave up a lot to make it happen. I am NOT ashamed of my car or how I feel about how.

AND HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF LYING!!! I did bid the car to 3000.00 and I have the emails to prove you jerk off. You could not offer me a million dollars for my car you piece of slime.


It occurs to me that just because I work for a living makes you think that you are some deserving underdog. Take your holier than thou attitude and stuff it.

Jerk.
Datsa 66

Post by Datsa 66 »

And since you don't have the guts to post using your real name, it also makes you a coward.
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Linusrp
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Model: 1500/1600
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Character Defense

Post by Linusrp »

I do not personally know Andrew, so I am not writing this reply to defend a 'friend or acquaintance'. In fact, I don't believe I have ever met him. And I rarely say much on this forum because I would rather let those with more knowledge than I speak with relevance, but I do read the discussions regularly with interest. For the most part everyone is very cordial, occassionally people disagree with solutions which is natural and helpful. I like the fact that everyone trys to help the rest of us keep our cars on the road with accurate/usable information.
With regard to attacking someone's character I do not believe it has a place on this forum. I do not expect everyone to agree, but some sense of civility helps to maintain a good forum. The fact that people leave their names, and/or ID's, adds a personal level that brings owner's closer together. By hiding behind 'Guest' status your responses become less relevant and cowardly in my opinion. If you are in fact a guest, then please attempt to maintain some level of composure when commenting on other people's positions. You do not have to agree or even like someone elses comments. I openly acknowledge that you are entitled to your own opinion. Forum's are by nature a great way to air your opinions and I welcome this entirely, I only ask that you show restraint in your personal attacks for the betterment of the forum. Just my two cents. Thank you.
1967 1600 restored
1968 1600 Gone & Buried
1970 1600 Gone & Buried
Datsa 66

Post by Datsa 66 »

Thanks Linusrp,

I appreciate the response.

Look folkls, I don't want to make this a flame war either. I am just tired of people who do not know me telling me to "get over myself". Only my family and friends have earned that right and the members of this forum have not. You do not know me. You have not earned the right anymore than I do for you.

Discuss the cars, not the people.
Guest

Post by Guest »

Solex67 wrote:You know what? I am sick to death of idiots like you who give me grief for being proud of my car. I earned every penny I put into it with a lot of hard work and I gave up a lot to make it happen. I am NOT ashamed of my car or how I feel about how.

AND HOW DARE YOU ACCUSE ME OF LYING!!! I did bid the car to 3000.00 and I have the emails to prove you jerk off. You could not offer me a million dollars for my car you piece of slime.


It occurs to me that just because I work for a living makes you think that you are some deserving underdog. Take your holier than thou attitude and stuff it.

Jerk.
Being proud of your car is one thing. I think all of us are proud of our cars . But I think you are just getting your jollies off by making a point of how much you spent on your car.
I even remember you telling people to email you so you can tell them how much you spent on it.
I dont care how you paid for it,its not the money or the car, its
again your attitude.
If it makes you think you are a better man than any of us by telling people how much you spent on it thats you. Dont get mad if someone tells you what they think of it.

Yeah sure you can prove it. I checked your ebay record and its not even listed. So stop making up things.

Just because I dont list my name on here doesnt make me a coward. I just happen to check this site and came upon your thead.
I guess I can assume that you must be compensating for your
manlihood by acting the way you do.

I have not met you yet, but Im sure I not missing anything.
Datsa 66

Post by Datsa 66 »

First off schmuck, you assume that I use the same handle on ebay as I do here. I don't. My ebay handle is DATTASKER. Check under that. And when you find the bids there you can put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Second, I don't think I am better than anyone else, but you sure seem to think you are better than me.

Third, this is the last time I am going to post about this. I could give two cents for what you think of me. That you would waste your time on ebay trying find my bids and then with wrong information publicly post hateful things about someone you do not know makes you a cad and a sniveling liar.

For the record: I am proud of my car. I spent a lot of money on it. I do not think it makes me better than anyone else. I am done wasting energy on a small-minded little twerp like you. I will sign my posts and you won't.

Andrew Murphy
Proud Owner of SRL311-00489
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DatsunBucky
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Post by DatsunBucky »

Right on, Andrew! I know you don't want/need anyone fighting your battles for you, but I, for one, am behind you 100%.

"Guest": Why don't you go back to those forums for those who feel the need to bash others? If you don't like the fact that someone spent money on his/her car and is proud of the result, you can go hang out with the pizza-faced, 2Fast 2Furious, Honda Civic crowd. They sound about your speed. Obviously none of them has ever spent any money on their cars. Of course they don't have to, they're already so fast and so bad that the entire rest of the automotive world is only fodder for their gigantic egos! Bwahahahahaha! :roll: When you've grown up (even though I don't imagine that'll happen any time soon), c'mon back and try to add some intelligent repartee. We'll all still be here, supporting and helping one another. In the meantime, your X-Box is waiting...
Bucky
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spl310
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Post by spl310 »

I don't know Andrew either, but I am going to make an observation here. The "guest" did not call Andrew any names, but pointed out that Andrew appears price fixated. That is, after all, what this thread is about. Andrew's replies were rather venomous and included name calling and slurs. Not quite the professional response that Andrew himself seems to be asking for from the guest. I can understand responding with a pointed response if you are offended, but there is no reason for name calling.

I did take you up on your offer to check out the bidding. Andrew, I hate to point this out to you, but the car closed at $2650 so technically you did NOT bid it up to $3000. I have no reason to not believe that you offered that after the bidding ended, but that is not what you stated in your message.

The whole point of the discussion at hand is the value of Roadsters. What I see in the posts from Andrew is that his car is worth a pile of money (equivalent to what was reported to be the peak of restored STOCK 67 2000 values - not restomod cars...) yet other roadsters are worth a pittance in comparison. I know that you are proud of your car, and you should be proud of it. The point is that others are proud of their cars. Lets face it, to the "average Joe", a 67 2000 is the same as any other roadster out there - just minor trim variations. Yes, a collector or Datsun nut would know the historic value and would recognize that, but the average buying public - the ones that seem to set the prices on these inexpensive cars - does not really care. In fact, a correct, numbers matching 67 2000 Solex car sold not too awful long ago for the princely sum of $2000. Yes, it needed work, but a knowing buyer drove from Canada to buy it sight unseen.

Value is subjective and the seller on Ebay has every right to value his car at $4000 as you have to value your car at $30000.
"Wow, a Roadster!" Stuart Little

1967.5 2000
1967.5 2000
1964 1500
1964 1500
1967.5 1600
1968 chassis
2006 Acura MDX
2013 Volkswagen Jetta TDI wagon
1995 F350 Powerstroke!
More...
Datsa 66

Post by Datsa 66 »

Thanks Bucky!

Since I am so rich (NOT), I invite you to come on out for Solvang. I got lucky and got a suite at the Marriot with an extra sleeping area for the price of a single room in Solvang. You are welcome to stay there and the beer would be on me.

Truly, thanks for the support people. I love the cars and I love the people.


See you on the road!


Andrew Murphy
SRL311-00489
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