Datsun Roadster Forum-311s.org

I’m interested in the autocross stuff. I’m a total neophyte and only know what I’ve been reading in grass roots motor sports and perusing some sites. My questions are:
License or certification process needed?
Truly how hard is it on the car, dumb I know, but looking more at costs associated?
Good sources for local events?
Additional equipment needed to get started? Besides what came off the showroom floor.
Is the SCCA the only sanctioning body?
I guess to sum it up how to get started?
Any Maryland mentors out there?

Damn good questions, which are similar to what I asked the racers in my club and my brother-in-law (he's auto-crossed since forever). They all scratched their heads and went, hmmmmmmm....

Seems like no one has ever bothered to create an Auto-cross 101 book or website. If you find one, clue us all in.

SCCA organizes a lot of autocrosses. Around here, a lot of local car clubs organize autocrosses, and typically don't mind "cross pollinizaton" of car makes. For example the corvette club, or the miata club, etc.

There used to be a site, autocross.com or .org that had a listing of local autocrosses.

No license or cert. needed. An SCCA membership is helpful, and will give you a discount on entry fees to SCCA events.

It is harder on your car than normal day to day driving. You'll want to make sure brakes, suspension, and steering are in proper order. Most events ususally have a safety inspection where they do a quick check to make sure your battery is bolted down, your suspension doesn't have a lot of extra slop in it etc.

At a minimum, you'll want to use the roadster's shoulder harness, in combination with the lap belts. You don't want to be sliding around in the car while trying to control it's direction. A 4-point harness is better.

It's been a while since I've autocrossed, and I know the rules have evolved a little in the last couple of years. You can show up and run your car as-is, but don't expect to be competitive. but DO expect to have a lot of fun.

It's good to have your own helmet, but most SCCA event have "loaner" helmets you can borrow.

Fubar wrote:License or certification process needed?
Truly how hard is it on the car, dumb I know, but looking more at costs associated?
Good sources for local events?
Additional equipment needed to get started? Besides what came off the showroom floor.
Is the SCCA the only sanctioning body?
I guess to sum it up how to get started?
Any Maryland mentors out there?

If you have a drivers license and are over 18 you're good to go.

It's harder on the car than street driving but so long as the car is in good shape, it's not bad at all. I'll elaborate more later.

Check the following links to start with:
http://www.autocrossforum.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

http://www.scca.com/Solo/Solo.asp?IdS=5 ... &x=050|010&~=

To get started you just need to go to the next event. Get a feel for it and if you like it, determine how deep you want to get in.
Take the following with a grain of salt as you'll start in a novice class and always always always, driver is far more critical than car.
If your car is more or less bone stock it runs in the SCCA's E Stock category. It's not competitive there because of the stock 4.5 inch wide wheels but you can still have plenty of fun. You'll be running agains older miata's and MR2's.
Next stop is CSP (C Street Prepared). This is where I run. The car has been competitive there in the past if fully prepared which means comp springs, Koni or better shocks, flaired or cut fenders to fit 225/50-15's on 8 or 9 inch wide wheels (which is too small now that Hoosier just came out with a 275/35-15), Comp front bar, 4.11 LSD, tilton flywheel, header and fairly open exhaust, solex's with a B cam, and a whole lot of other little mods to drop weight or pick up other advantages like putting a torque brace on the engine to limit movement on the mounts. Max camber and a little toe out helps too.
Most roadsters run in CSP if for no other reason than we're usually on larger than stock wheels.
Now, note that all of the above mods are needed only for a nationally competitive car. Don't worry about what's needed to be nationally competitive. Start with the basics which are a decent set of tires and LEARNING HOW TO DRIVE. I'll say it again, the most critical part of the equation is who's behind the wheel.

You'll find that the water is warm so just jump in. Almost everyone you meet in the autocross community will bend over backwards to help you if you tell them your new. It's a very freindly group so don't be intimidated at all. Just find the next event and go. Make sure your car is in good shape. You'll want all the fluids topped up, the battery secured well, a solid brake pedal, and a bit of extra air pressure in the tires. Some clubs will have an air compressor at the event. On typical street tires, you'll want something around 40psi to keep them from rolling over too much. You'll also want decent seat belts in the car. Lap belts or the three points are okay if you've got stock belts. You can only run 4 points legally if you have a roll bar in the car (SCCA rule). A roll bar IS NOT a requirement though. If you get a helmet, it needs to be snell M2000 or Snell SA2000 or better. DOT certification only is not good enough. Most clubs will have a couple of loaner helmets available. You can pick one up on ebay pretty cheap, just check the certification. Open face or full face are fine.

First purchase you should make in my opinion is Henry Watt's book "Secrets of Solo Racing: Expert Techniques for Autocrossing and Time Trials " See if this works http://www.amazon.com/Secrets-Solo-Raci ... 333&sr=8-1

As for tires, well... you'll get an education at the first event. RESIST the urge to buy a set of racing tires (DOT R Comps like Hoosier's). It's best to spend at least the first year on street tires, your learning curve will be more steep that way even though it sound counter intuitive. Good street tires are the Falken Azenis and Bridgestone RE-01R's. IF you get at least semi-serious, you might want to invest in these, possibly a second set of wheels too to allow you to drive to the event on the autocross tires but not use them for weekday driving.

Wear and tear on the car is fairly limited but if your doing it a fair amount there are several areas you 'll need to check with some regularity. On the engine, make sure that you're not going lean at full throttle at high rpm. Make sure the valve lash is in spec. At least twice a year check the front wheels bearings. Rears once a year. Make sure the clutch is property adjusted and in fairly good shape. Other than that, just general maintenance.

There are quite a few autocrossers on the list and the board. In addition to me, Gary Boone, Will (SLORoadster), Andy Cost (Nomad Trash), and Gordon Glasgow have or still autocross and are active on the board. you can contact any of us if you have questions.

Bottom line, check out the SCCA web site and click on the locate a region button to find the contact info for the solo program nearest you. There are other clubs that sanction autocrosses but you're best bet is to start with the SCCA and ask the folks at an event what other clubs/events run in the area. Usually you'll find PCA (Porsche club), BMWCCA, and maybe NASA-X running in the area. Possibly an independent club too.
Don't bother with going to an event as a spectator either. It's just like sex, much more fun to do than to watch... Even if you don't know what you're doing.

Which was the dumb question??? all seemed pretty good to me. I tried autocross, was alot of fun, best time I had was a driving school with the local Alfa club at Lime Rock 20+ years ago. The drive up ther was as much fun as the track time. I had a hopped up 77 Sunbird (no laughing) and I was actually competetive once I learned how to drive on a track. Funny part was the good driver in an Omni GLH spanking a marginal driver in a slant nose Porche (935?). It's much bigger track, but as Brian said, it's a drivers contest.

I have a couple roll bars of unknown quality if you want to use one as a pattern. I have heard going to a 4 speed in a 2000 gives a better range of gears on the autocross with a stock rear, Got one of those you can have free if you want it, trans shaft and crossmember. I'm driving down to Maryland to see DELETED in a few weeks, and am 90% going to the Glen, let me know if you can use them.

My only suggestion is to make sure the cooling system is up to the task, low airflow, high rev driving.


See if you can go to an MG club autocross day, be like bringing a gun to a knife fight.

Excellent info! Thanks guys. D-man I was running with an MG and Austin sprite on Monday night out on some twisty roads near my house and I could blow them away to the point that I could pull over for almost a whole song until they caught up of course I’m running new shocks, new tires new on and on….I’m sure the Austin owner (my good friend) will buy a Cobra replica or something because he is gob smacked at how fast my roadster is and HATES to loose.
I’m really getting stoked with this car and really want to try some AutoX so I’ll let you know it goes Thanks again.

Brakes: Would something like the Volvo conversion push you from E Stock to CSP?

2000's are in CSP in stock form. If you swap the volvos, you get punted to OSP. I still don't know why anyone would want to do that swap. In CSP, you can do some work, but can't get really crazy. You want a comp anti-sway bar, a good high end set of shocks, alloy wheels with the biggest tires you can fit under the stock fenders. You can swap the carbs, run a B cam (or a regrind as long as you don't start winning all the time and have someone protest.) A EI dizzy is allowed. Stock brakes are required. I think fiberglass fenders, hoods and trunklides are frowned upon as well.
Another possibility is running Vintage. Some clubs/events have a vintage class, both stock and street prep. Those are always fun to run as (in my case) the VSP class becomes almost a vintage open class (DOT R-compounds are allowed) any we get everything from a Fiat 500 to a 427 Cobra. The class ususally has some of the fastest times of the day.

If you want more info, shoot me a pm/email.

Will

OSP is a regional class. It's only an option in a region that runs it. Volvo brakes would put you in D Prepared I think. It's not needed though.
in CSP you can only modify the fenders for tire clearance so you can't replace the whole fender. You must use stock hood and deck lid.
Don't worry too much about classing though. You may have a great regional class that you'll fit into well with mods you want to do. You may also find a non-SCCA club that you'll end up running with more than any other. Locally, we have a group called FAST. Basically the classes are stock street tire over and under 3 liters, Stock race tire over and under 3L, and prepared street tire, prepared race tire. Prepared is basically anything that's not stock. The club is far more focused on fun and learning to drive than on competition and season points. Just get familiar with what's available in your area and find whatever seems to be the best fit. Then do any needed modifications to the car that you may want.

oilleak wrote:There are quite a few autocrossers on the list and the board. In addition to me, Gary Boone, Will (SLORoadster), Andy Cost (Nomad Trash), and Gordon Glasgow have or still autocross and are active on the board.

You can add me to that list (1969-1978, SCCSCC Prodified Class Champ twice, 67.5 1600). The one thing that nobody's mentioned as being hard on the car is the 1st-2nd shift. My 2nd gear syncho would last less than a year, but for down to first I'd double-clutch. I just couldn't bring myself to do a "granny shift" up or down when the clock was running. I recall a magazine once describing somebody else's synchros as being "easier to beat than Superman taking on the bad guys." I've always remembered that.

I used the stock brakes as they would come up to temp right away rather than needing half the course to get heated up. (Watch out, old school stuff coming!) Stab the brakes, pitch the car into the turn and gather it up with the steering wheel and throttle. "Brakes? We doan need no stinkin' brakes!"

With respect to helmets for autocrossing, it was my understanding that SCCA accepts the current Snell certification plus the previous two, so 2005, 2000 and 1995 either SA or M can be used. BTW, loaner helmets have been on how many previous, sweaty heads? Much better to have your own.

There are a couple of road racers as well....

Fubar wrote:I’m sure the Austin owner (my good friend) will buy a Cobra replica or something because he is gob smacked at how fast my roadster is and HATES to loose.

Then he'll really be pissed off when you beat him in his new Cobra!

I did forget to mention that it's best to put an electric fan in as well. particularly if you've got a seven blade fan with a locked clutch. That fan is taking quite a bit of power to turn at 7K rpm not to mention that it's trying to rip the water pump off the front of the engine... It won't but it does put unneeded strain on the bearing.

2nd gear synchro's.... Who needs 'em.
Seriously, I've not had trouble with the 5 speed other than it's easy to beat the synchro as it wears. I'm running a borg warner box and second is starting to get a bit chunky but only on fast up shifts. I do rev match my downshifts.

I second all that was said. At least to the best of my knowledge. I went a weeks back for my first time and it was really great. Everybody was helpful, I expected a bit of newbie ribbing and what not, but it was just a good time and people were happy to help.

As to wear and tear on the car, I felt like it was less wear and tear than a heated hour of driving on my local twisties. It also feels quite a bit safer to drive fast in a parking lot than next to a cliff. My biggest concern would be hitting a cone and leaving a mark, and I'm told it will when, not if, it happens. Some regions do require SCCA membership to run, like San Francisco.

As to what class, if your not sure, just ask. I don't think it is real critical the first time out, your not going to be very competitive anyhow. I ran in SM2, as Eric Gillis was showing me the ropes and we wanted to run and work in the same group. I was told that my car will fit into more than a few classes.

You can also just go to your next local event, and hitch a ride around the track with someone, to see what it's like. If you go this route, try and go in their first runs, as the later runs people will be trying for their best times after getting to know the track a little. The first time I went just to watch, there was guy in taxi giving free rides.

It's a great to enjoy the ride

http://www.autocross.com/

License or certification process needed?

No

Additional equipment needed to get started?

Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go. Kumho or Hoosier autocross tires are 15% faster than any real street tire out there. To be legal for E-Stock you will need to have a complete restoration with almost every single item bone stock including the cigarette lighter and radio. Will anyone care if you show up in a mostly original car with no performance goodies? Probably not. The biggest hinderence to the stock car is the requirement to have the stock 4-1/2" wide steel wheels. I do suggest having your own helmet. You can get a fairly nice THH on EBAY for less than $50. Make sure it has the Snell label inside that is the gold foil with holographic images. CSP is a good place for the roadster because the comp springs and swaybar are allowed along with wider wheels and tires. You can also flare the fenders if you are really serious. You can install fuel injection or any type of carburation. You can swap parts between year models, make a 1600 into a 2000, put in the 1600 rear gears, add a limited slip, etc... You just can't strip the car out oropen up the motor. I won for many years in CSP. EP is harder and allows the car to be stripped down and the factory motor to be hot rodded. No boost. A roadster recently won the nationals in EP. A motor swap will put you in d-mod under 2000cc and e-mod over 2000cc. You can also run in STS2 on street tires or SM2 on cheater slicks. I suggest staying in CSP until you get a good feel.