Question re: Bill of Sale

[RoadZog]

Hi folks,

I'm in the process of graduating from forum lurker to full-fledged community member with the purchase of a very cool 1967.5 1600. Today I got a copy of the title and a bill of sale, which is required here in NJ. Unfortunately, the current owner left the title "open" when he bought it from the previous owner. It's understandable given nobody wants to deal with the DMV in the best of times, but especially now in Covid world. When I asked the seller if the NJ DMV was going to give me trouble if the name of the seller on the bill of sale is different from the name on the old title, he said he would just change the name on the bill of sale to the previous owner... which honestly sounded a little too easy.

Given this is my first time purchasing a car from a private seller, I'm a little nervous to begin with wiring a large amount of money to someone I met on the internet (it sounds so much worse when I put it like that...). I understand not all states even require a bill of sale, but coming from NJ, where they tax EVERYTHING, my immediate thought was the current and prior owner left it titled in the prior owners name to avoid paying income taxes. And now, if I go through with the transaction, isn't that prior owner going to get a call from the IRS? Maybe I'm being paranoid, but a little paranoia has served me pretty well so far in my business dealings, so I figured I'd head to the most knowledgeable place on the web for these types of things. So, roadster fans, am I right to be concerned, or is this nothing and it doesn't really matter what the name of the seller is on the bill of sale?

Thanks,

Matt

[notoptoy]

Bill of Sale is not required in NC - so this may not apply - but as long as the title is signed exactly as the "seller" is named, then the title is "open" and you are the purchaser. Sort of like a check made out to cash, whomever endorses it, owns it. NC taxes off the book value, so that is why BOS not needed, they know too many people cheat with a BOS.

[RoadZog]

Thanks - that makes me feel alot better.

[redroadster]

He bypassed paying taxes on his purchase ...they access
penalties ,on that most states ...cause they like the $$$ you cannot legally sell a car in MO without a title in your name
Going to a rural office sometimes makes a difference

[spl311srl311]

I went through the same thing a few years ago. Seller was a flipper and I had the title from the previous owner. Also from New Jersey I thought I was doomed. They excepted the old title and the bill of sale. If you go for double Q tags what will hold you up is the pictures. DMV wants full views unobstructed of the car two sides in the all pictures and the top has to be up. So you need for views of the front and sides rear and sides. Don’t forget you also need to have insurance, etc, etc

[theunz]

I would pose that question to the local tag agency. You could be opening an expensive can of worms.

[Linda]

If you are “wiring a large amount of money to someone you met on the internet” that would concern me. Do you have the car?
Linda

[RoadZog]

No, car is in another state. I've pulled a credit report and called references, so I'm comfortable the seller is legit. But it just doesn't seem wise wiring him the $ if he's not on the bill of sale. I'm going to contact the DMV. If they say it's ok the name on the BOS doesn't match the prior title, that would at least eliminate that concern.

[eye]

I'd find another vehicle. They are out there with a legit title and owner. Just my 2 cents.

[dynaguy]

When I purchased the '66 survivor, I received the original title that was properly signed and Notorized by both individuals on the title. The title was left "open". I received a bill of sale from the person I bought it from, the son of the original owners. Washington state is infamous for DMV nightmares. Other than the local "rural" agent stating that she had never seen an original Montana title, all went well.
Your results may vary. FWIW Pat

[datsun1500]

The DMV will tell you it’s an issue, but it’s not. I’d have the bill of sale made out from the name on the title, and move on. You’re overthinking it.

[RoadZog]

Am I overthinking it? Perhaps. But the fact is, I'm not the one who played a little fast and loose with the rules. Legally he should have had it registered in his name when he purchased it, and he's admitted that. His reasons are understandable, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm the one taking the risk if there's a problem.

It's interesting that the comments here have been almost evenly split for and against going forward. I did call the DMV, and the first person I spoke to said it would absolutely be a problem. The second person said the only way to find out would be to take all the documents to the DMV to let them review, which is obviously a catch-22.

As a last ditch effort I've asked for 1) a copy of the bill of sale between the previous owner and the current "owner", so I at least have something in writing indicating he's the actual owner, and 2) a guarantee that I would be given a full refund in the event I'm unable to register the car in NJ. I don't expect him to accept, but we'll see. Am I still thinking more with my heart than with my head? Probably, but it's also not worth losing sleep over - like somebody already said, there are other cars.

Thanks again to everyone for the advice. The checks in the mail

[theunz]

Here is an option you might consider. Have him go ahead and get the title in his name and then proceed. It will cost him a little extra depending how long he has had the car and wether or not he has kept the tags current. If you really want the car then you could offer to pay some or all of the fees. Remember he WANTS to sell the car and knows that it will be problematic with the title as it is. If he could get the title transferred and notarized to you under the current name on the title (would have to get a notary to do it without seeing his identification, perhaps a friend or co-worker who is a notary) then it might fly. However, you might be held responsible for the penalty’s and back taxes.
To be safe you need to get a proper title and current tags on the car before you make the purchase. There are taxes and penalties due and somebody WILL have to pay them.

[eye]

What theunz said is the right way to do it. If it doesn't feel right 99 times out of 100 it isn't. Have him get the title with matching frame and body VIN in his name or walk away.

[eye]

If you really want to simplify the whole DMV process, buy something with the correct title and VIN(do a title search on the VIN) and buy it from the state where you reside and not out of state.