H20 engine w/R16 head and 2 x Weber 40 DCOE?

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 7:41 pm

Hi all,

Just got my hands on a brand new H20 engine that I am going to replace my old R16 with. I am thinking of using a ported R16 head instead of the H20 head.

I have a couple of questions that I hope someone can answer:

Will a pair of Weber 40 DCOE carbs be sufficient for this setup?

Can I use the stock R16 cam, the H20 cam or what cam grind should I use?

Thanks,
Lars Tungen
Norway
Early 1967 Darsun 1600

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:14 pm

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67 1/2 1600 · Post by **67 1/2 1600** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:41 pm

A cam would be great with webers, would pull better with a cam and more powerful with webers. IMO

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:53 pm

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67 1/2 1600 · Post by **67 1/2 1600** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 8:56 pm

I agree with Mark and yes I meant a grinded cam will help out alot not the A cam form the U20

. Work with what you have setting up the 2000 SU's will be much simpler than tuning/jetting the carbs on the webers. But I personally like the look of the side draft look of solexes/webers.

Post by **spl310** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:02 pm

Is the new H20 a forklift unit or a car/truck unit? It makes a difference I am told. If you have the one for the forklift, the cam will not be useful. If you have the car/truck unit, I believe that the cam is the same as the R cam. Also, the head on the car/truck unit supposedly has the same ports as the R.

All that being said, I believe that even with a moderate cam on the street, the 40s should be fine.

Daryl Smith · Post by **Daryl Smith** » Wed Nov 23, 2005 9:41 pm

I have to agree with sid,

I think the weber 40's (smaller than the stock U20 solexes @ 44?) would be great!
Combine that with about a 275* cam with about .400" valve lift and you "should" have a very responsive engine that will be quite reasonable to live with on the streets.

Talk to a cam grinder about what you have/want, and see what he recommends.
For my car, a "dual" grind was recommended. 270* for intake, 274* for exhaust (exhaust ports ain't so good on these engines?).

My $0.02

Post by **dbrick** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:46 am

If you can get the CFM's on the webers or whatever carbs you want to compare, the formula is as follows:

Required CFM=[(displacment cu inches)*(Max RPM)* (VE usually about .90)] /3456

VE is volumetric efficiancy, .9 average, up to .95 very good to over 100% with boosted motors.

so an H20 [(2.0L 122 cuin )*(7500rpm)*.90] /3456=238 cfm
I think the 1 3/4" u20 carbs are 175 cfm each, but not sure.

For comparison,

350 v8 [350*6500*.9] /3456=592 cfm usually use a 650
454 v8 [454*6500*.9] /3456=768 cfm usually use a 750 or 800

It's scary, I can remember this formula, but have no idea what I had for lunch Monday.

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:15 am

Thank you all for the advice.

I have been struggling to get my old R16 to run and idle smoothly. Most likely because the old SU's was getting worn. The engine was completly redone three years ago. So my original plan was to upgrade the engine with the R16 weber kit from Pierce Manifolds along with an electronic distributor. But then I was told about this H20 engine. I haven't seen the engine yet, so I don't know if it's for forklift or a van. But it's "brand new" (been in storage since the 80's) and I can have it for free

After reading your advice the new plan is this:
- H20 w/cut and ported R16 head
- 2 x Weber 40 DCOE
- Custom cam grind
- Electronic distributor

I am not sure if the radiator is able to keep this cool. Does anyone here have experience with strokers and stock 1600 radiators?

And also, will an exhaust header be worthwhile for this setup?

Thanks,
Lars

Post by **spl310** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:57 am

Dave,

Unless I am mistaken, isn't the 175 CFM for the Mikuni 44 per BARREL? Making each carb about 350 CFM?

Post by **dbrick** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 12:39 pm

That would make sense, 1 3/4 SUs are 44 mm. Over carbureting isn't necessarilly bad, it can just be really hard to tune for part throttle operation. The SU gets around it with the piston, can't bog it if doesn't have enough flow, the piston won't rise.

I had a 400 cfm 4bbl carburetor on a 389 cid Pontiac V8 for a temporary fix. The power was great off idle and up to about 400 or 4500 rpm where it ran out of steam. Same carburetor on small V8 would be good all around.

mikew · Post by **mikew** » Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:48 pm

Ok Lars,

I have a H20 with webers.

I've discussed my engine a few times on this forum. See the following threads for some info:

http://www.311s.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2018
http://www.311s.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=
http://www.311s.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

Camshaft info here:

http://www.311s.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.ph ... highlight=

Basically, the 40DCOEs (or Mikuni 40's) are great on a H20. My 40's have 34mm chokes which work well.

If your H20 is not from a forklift, then you have the option of not even opening it up! Leave the standard cam in it, leave the H20 head on it. Just bolt on the webers, and away you go. If you want a few more revs, add an extra spring to each valve on the head. Then add some extractors and bigger exhaust pipe. This setup should get you about 85hp at the wheels, and you'll have a nice torquey motor that's great fun.

Of course if you want more power there is plenty more you can do (cam, pistons, headwork), but that will start costing money!

As for cooling - I ran the above setup for a number of years with a 1500 radiator, and it never got hot - even on a 45C (113F) summer day a few years ago (the occupants were pretty damn hot though!!!).

If I can help you with anything, just ask!

Mike

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:57 am

Took some pictures of the engine today. The part no for the engine is 10102-78201. Is it possible to tell if it's a forklift or truck engine from the pictures?

Post by **itsa68** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 9:30 am

Lars:
That engine was a great find!

The part# indicates the H20 motor is for the 1967 Cedric 130 series wagon. [W130-u (67)]

There is a service manual currently being sold on ebay for your engine.
H16(R) & H20 Engine. Publication # 47301(20910150).
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/H-16-R-H ... 3348QQrdZ1

If you want to find out more about the Cedric, go here:
http://members.fortunecity.com/planetce ... index.html

Ray B.

Lars · Post by **Lars** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:35 am

Ray,

Thanks for the info. I never thought of the Cedric when considering what car the engine was made for. I suspected it would be for a Urvan, but the Cedric makes good sense. They sold a lot of them here in the late 60's. It would have been nice to own one, since they look awsome with their Pininfarina body design and white side tyres. Feels almost bad to waste this fine engine for a roadster project. But I am not going to mess to much with the engine. Just replace some of the parts and avoid any cutting and shaving.