Frustrated with the BRAKES (or lack thereof) on my 1500

datsun65 · Post by **datsun65** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:53 pm

3 weeks ago had my new White Wall tires mounted at the corner tire/brake shops. Good folks, not a bunch neophytes..

While I was threre I asked them to flush the brakes and adjust. They found a broken spring on the driver's side wheel (no wonder why she pulled hard to the right!).

Yet after the flush/bleed they tell me the master cylinder blew and I needed a new one. So I drive home (carefully) without a brake pedal...only hand the ebrake.

New master arrived this week. Shop installs it , and tells me that this new master is bad as well...I disgree. The chances of having both Mastesr be bad is very, very small...Probably air in the system.

So, they check it again this moring. Yep...I'm right...nothing wrong with the master. They isolate the front / rear. The master hooked to the rear has a good solid pedal. Then they isolate the front, with the drivers side only it has a pedal , but soft. With the driver & passenger...no pedal.

Now...none of the wheel cylinders are leaking. They says the hoses look to be in good condition/.I had brakes when I drove it in, but no longer...Can some of the wheel cylinders just be locked up? Each front wheel has two cylinders...how can I figure which one is giving the problem. Or, is this more like a bad bleed jb?

Any suggestion welcomed.

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:29 pm

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datsun65 · Post by **datsun65** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:25 pm

Thanks, Mark.

I've got the proper master.

Nissan (Datsun) Brake Master Cylinder part number 46010-12900

Shop now says I have a driver's side lower wheel cylinder which is frozen. However, I can't image why a frozen wheel cylinder would have caused a complete loss of pressure in the brake system. Makes no sense to me.

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:36 pm

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Post by **dbrick** » Sat Nov 19, 2005 11:42 pm

If the bleeder for that "frozen" wheel cylinder did not let the air out of that line, it just became a big hydraulic accumulator, explaining lack of pedal.
The old brake hoses can deteriorate on the inside and all the pieces of rubber wash down to the wheel cylinder, clogging it and jamming it.

Big question is did they get clean fluid out of the wheel cylinder when it was bled. If they did, a properly bled stuck wheel cylinder would just be a dead end in the hydraulics and actually cause a more firm brake pedal as no fluid is needed to fill the space. It would be the same as plugging the line.
I don't know specifics on 1500 brakes, are there are 2 wheel cylinders per wheel? If so is there a sequence to bleed them, I would guess lower one first then upper. I have seen people who put in wheel cylinders and calipers on the wrong side of the car, so they are upside down and the bleeder is on the bottom making it difficult if not impossible to get the air out, don't know if that applies here.

Please post the final result, it's intriguing.

datsun65 · Post by **datsun65** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 2:45 pm

After three days at the shop, I've given up.

The 1500s use two wheel cylinders per each wheel. Of the four wheel cylinders, each is a different design.

Now, After the shop told me the car needed a wheel cylindeer, I asked which one...But said they didn't yet know?!? I dropped off two new (of Four) wheel cylinders that I had sitting at the house. They were part # 41100, and Part # 41102 which is listed as the lower front wheel cylinders (left and right).

I received a call that the shop has installed the two new wheel cylinders, but the driver's side bottom wheel cylinder was frozen. They said I need a new driver side lower wheel cylinder...But, Unless I'm totally confused.. I GAVE THEM A SET of NEW LOWER CYLINDERS!!!

They said the car now has a pedal, but they are still soft. Once They install a new wheel cylinder, all will be good. Go to the shop yesterday evening....Find they left the key in the 'on' position for days...NIce of them to burn out the points for me

The car is now dead, and guess what... NO BRAKES!!!!

Jump the car... Cruise the Fairlady home, nice and slow with the eBrake.

As I left the shop...The guy let me know that we can settle the Bill when I return with another wheel cylinder...Urgh...

shifty · Post by **shifty** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:05 pm

Dan,

You've got to start wrenching on the cars yourself!

I'd go ahead and replace all of the wheel cylinders at one time.

datsun65 · Post by **datsun65** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:15 pm

NO kidding!!....

I trust myself to make the car go...But, stopping is another story!

Just called the shop back today, and they are positive they replaced the top two wheel cylinders. How...I don't know...I gave them two lower wheel cylinders?!?

Post by **dbrick** » Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:49 pm

From what I see, you know more about the brakes than the guy you are paying to fix your brakes. Unless I'm completly off base, sounds like they are a bit confused. A frozen wheel cyl shouldn't give you a soft pedal.

Brakes are pretty easy if you take it a piece at a time and don't disassemble both sides of the car at the same time.

datsun65 · Post by **datsun65** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 2:40 pm

Dave,

Can you help me figure out what parts I currently have?

The Two wheel cylinders pulled from the car had markings on them. They were..

R1 (on one Cylinder)
1L (on one Cylinder)

Now what do these marking refer to? Does the '1' denote upper or lower?

I believe the two cylinders replaced are the same ones (Top Row) as in the photo from Dean's Website (Fairlady Parts):

Thanks...

RoadsterYosh1 · Post by **RoadsterYosh1** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 6:47 pm

Wow, these cars are starting to scar me.

IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m no ace with these cars, so take it for what its worth. In a Ã¢â‚¬Å“unservoÃ¢â‚¬? brake systems IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ve played with, the wheel cyl piston faces forward on top. Your 1500 has a Ã¢â‚¬Å“dual-uniservoÃ¢â‚¬? system, so the lower wheel cyl piston should face reward. With that said and looking at the picture, I think the left side of the car has Ã¢â‚¬Å“1LÃ¢â‚¬? on the top and bottom and Ã¢â‚¬Å“R1Ã¢â‚¬? goes on the right side of the car, top and bottom. I think the tabs are the give away.

Stop at your own risk

Yosh

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 8:12 pm

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datsun65 · Post by **datsun65** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:23 pm

Thanks everyone.

With your help, I've confirmed I now have a new set of lower wheel cylinders mounted in the upper position.

I've ordered two new lupper cylinders (now will have a complete set of 4 new ones).

Just upset, that I have now purchased a new master and and two additional cylinders..when everything I had was in okay shape to begin with (san one 'suspect' locked-up cylinder)

Thanks for your patience & assistance with this saga...

Post by **dbrick** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 9:31 pm

Hope you don't mean this Dave, Dan. I just know how brakes work in general. The only 1500 I ever saw was Marks. Only 1500's I ever worked on said "FIAT" or "Spitfire" on the front

Here's my thoughts for what they are worth.

Are we assuming the brakes were assembled correctly before this mechanic started and that he didn't swap any parts to the wrong place?

As Mark said, the diagram and the adjustor location would be the key. General therory is bleeder screw on top, but this may not always apply.

I would think the left and right would be mirror images of each other, so If you have the parts, lay them out in front of you and see what matches what. Just be careful if the illustration is a left or right brake. The diagram Mark provided would seem to be a right front (passenger side) assy, so everything on left side would face the opposite way.

Best I can do, hope it helps

shifty · Post by **shifty** » Mon Nov 21, 2005 11:03 pm

All new hydraulics are not a bad thing! At least you know it is all good now.