Starter heat soak

[Redtail]

My starter won't crank very hard after it gets warm from driving on the freeway. Is it time for a new one? Is the gear reduction starter the way to go?

thanks

[S Allen]

The gear reduction starters are pretty nice. They are smaller and crank the motor easily. If you run a header it is still not a bad idea to buy a starter heat blanket from some place like Summit Racing to insulate the starter. The blankets work pretty well and are universal as you basically wrap the starter in the blanket and use zip ties to hold it on. The headers are close and the heat generated cannot be too good for any starter. I have not had a problem with the zip ties getting burned off.

Steve

[Howard R]

Zack, I had the exact same problem. After running the car for about an hour, it wouldn't start until the starter cooled off. This happened 4 times. Fortunately I was either on an incline or a couple of well meaning folks push started me. I've since put in a gear reduction starter and have had absolutely no problems.

[dbrick]

I have the new style starter, forklift type. I have gotten it REALLY hot, it's the one thing that always works. Be careful with the heat blankets, some conduct electricity. Battery disconnected while installing!! Check the battery and ground while in there.

I made new battery cables using marine battery cable from West Marine. It costs a bit more, but is ultra fine strand tinned copper with a very flexible jacket. I used 2 gauge for everything, which is big enough for a diesel, but I like overkill. cost is not too much more than 4 or 6 gauge. Ground cable should be equal size.

[DatsunBucky]

I made new battery cables using marine battery cable from West Marine. It costs a bit more, but is ultra fine strand tinned copper with a very flexible jacket. I used 2 gauge for everything, which is big enough for a diesel, but I like overkill. cost is not too much more than 4 or 6 gauge. Ground cable should be equal size.

I'm using #2 welding cable for my battery cables. The strands are even finer than that at West Marine, it costs considerably less ($25 for 20 ft) and is very flexible. They tell me current travels on the surface of wire, so the more conductors, the less resistance.

[dbrick]

That's one of those engineering urban legends, I don't know which way is true. I do know with signal, like cable TV it travels on the outside, they use copper plated steel in RG6 type wire.

The version I heard was frequency type stuff, RF and things like that are on the surface, but heavy amperage uses the whole wire, but I don't know. Either way, big and flexible is good.

[dbrick]

That's one of those engineering urban legends, I don't know which way is true. I do know with signal, like cable TV it travels on the outside, they use copper plated steel in RG6 type wire.

The version I heard was frequency type stuff, RF and things like that are on the surface, but heavy amperage uses the whole wire, but I don't know. Either way, big and flexible is good.

[spyder]

Open the starter and check the brushes for damage or wear. Clean them and the copper on the shaft for best operation. What is the timing of the engine? IF it is too advanced it may increase warm starting difficulty. Is the battery fully charged or old. Are the cables clean or corroded.

[garth]

The version I heard was frequency type stuff, RF and things like that are on the surface, but heavy amperage uses the whole wire, but I don't know. Either way, big and flexible is good.

Dave,

You got the theory right!

FWIW

Direct current (ie from a battery) in a conductor is of uniform density or in otherwords current travels the same in the center of the wire as on the outside.

Alternating current (ie household 60hz) in a conductor is distributed inversely porportionaly to frequenccy. This is known as the skin effect and in practise the higher the frequency the more the current travels at the surface of a conductor. As a result at rf & uhf frequencies conductors are often thin tubes a few thou thick. At 60 hz, the effective depth of a conductor is about 0.25in.

Enough of the physics bs.

If your starter has difficulty after a long run but starts wtihout problems when cold, it is most likely the brushes hanging up in the brush holders. Cleaning out the brush holders and lubricating them with graphite powder and replacing the springs will probably solve the problem.

[dbrick]

Thanks Garth. I knew it was some logical therory.

As to the sticking brushes, that's one, the other is that the starter solonoid expands from the heat and the ....(embarrassed, can't remember proper name of part) ...Round moving thing inside the solonoid can't move fully to make contact and engage the starter.

Repair method 2....Hit it with a rock while holding key in start position. Not kidding, actual roadside repair method.

[Redtail]

hey guys,

so I finally got around to replacing my starter, but I hit a bit of a snag. The triangular brace in front of the starter is still in place. I removed this by drilling out all th spot welds (all 11, somebody got crazy with the welder!) and then re-installed it with sheet metal screws.

Just for the record, the starter came out easy once the brace was removed. Would not come out otherwise. The gear reduction starters are good stuff too btw!