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How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:11 am
by ryderfmjones21
If you’ve been around on this site you definitely know that you cannot fit a Konig rewind wheel on a Datsun roadster without some serious modifications.

DISCLAIMER: this is a do at your own risk. Though modifying wheels can be done it doesn’t mean it’s safe!

Now as a 19 year old kid not only am I unwilling to spend 1200 bucks on a set of panasports my stubborn mind tells me that I can make a perfectly good $400 dollar set of wheels that don’t fit on my car fit on my car.

First I had to know how much room did I really need. so I ordered one wheel and got a 195/50r-15 tire mounted. I bolted it up in the rear which is the area it won’t fit and realized that there was know way I could just bend that spot welded lip out of the way.

Rolling the fender was not an option for me. I personally think it doesn’t look all that good. The Fairlady has got her curves and I like em that way.

I turned to modifying the wheels. It was a gamble but only spending 400 vs 1200 bucks was worth it to me. If it didn’t work I mean hey at least I learned something. (Buy the right parts first...) I used my eyecrometer and guesstimated the amount i needed off the wheel. Which was right around a 1/4” if you take a look on the back side of the wheels the taper for the lug nuts start right around a 1/4” so taking a 1/4 off the backside was to much in my opinion even though theses wheels are quite beefy and could probably take the abuse.

I needed to make More room .200” was definitely not going to cut it. I look at the drums and realized that they are clamped between the wheels and the hub and do not experience to much lateral force.

I toed the wheels down to the table in the mill made sure the surface was flat and wrote a program that ran a 3” shell mill in a circle around the hub. I took .200” off the backside .050” short of my 1/4” goal. Next was the drums. I hate modifying original parts but I was confident it would be strong enough. ( the braking surface on the drums still measure a 9.5” diameter! Original dimension!) I ran a file on the back side to knock down any high spots and toed it down on the table. I took .080 of each drums face. Exceeding my 1/4” goal by .030”
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Now basically the wheels fit just like my 14” wheels with 195/60r14 tire wheel combo fits in the rear. Tight but it fits. (You my need to tap the lip inside the fender up a little) my old wheel and tire combo rubbed a little when I drove hard through corners but I believe that can be fixed with a hammer :)

That’s how’s you fit a 15X7 Konig rewind on a Datsun roadster.
The main question- was it worth it? Probably not to the average Joe but as a 19 year old kid with a whole machine shop to play around in I definitely think it was! It was a good learning experience for me personally expanding my machining knowledge and simply just trying new things.
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As fitment goes I think the rear is dead nuts (metric- spot on) with tire and wheel combo. It may be good with a 1/2” lowering block to get that tire up there a little more but as for up front I wish I got a slightly taller tire maybe a 195/55 or 60r-15

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:05 am
by notoptoy
Creative solution, I am sure an experienced engineer could validate the math on the structural integrity.

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:54 am
by theunz
Way to think out of the box. Looks like a nice fit. As for the fronts, how about some shorter springs? I'm envious of your access to the machine tools. I wouldn't have a clue as how to operate any of them short, of an old manual lathe, but would love the opportunity to learn.

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:39 am
by Alvin
Vey cool!
For reference, here is a 15x7 +0 Konig, with rolled fender lips in rear:
Image
Front:
Image

16x7 (with 205/40/16 tires), rear fender lips rolled
Image

The milling technique is a great way to increase offset, but care must be given not to interfere with the calipers or front sway bar!

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:55 am
by GeoffM
Way to boldly go!

I'm curious how you set-up the first cut on the drum. What was your reference point or did you assume the tips of the fins were parallel to the hub face (and square to the braking surface)?

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:38 am
by Gregs672000
Love the attitude my man! You win no matter what by TRYING and learning. I've tried many things that worked, and others that didn't, but that led to the things that did work!
There's a fabricator who has a show on Motortrend TV (easy going bald dude) who clearly has learned in just this manner. He's fun to watch and he creates some real neat vehicles and solutions to problems. Working on cars teaches creative and patient problem solving, a very important life skill!

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:46 pm
by ryderfmjones21
GeoffM wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:55 am Way to boldly go!

I'm curious how you set-up the first cut on the drum. What was your reference point or did you assume the tips of the fins were parallel to the hub face (and square to the braking surface)?
Sorta. I set it all up on the table to and then measured it’s flatness which surprisingly was “ok” probably around .020”. Of difference all around which was okay with me. I didnt really think that it would have that much of an effect because it’s the backside of the drum that keeps the hub perpendicular to the braking surface.

Probably the best way to cut the drums so each side is almost perfectly parallel is to chuck the drum up in a lathe hub mounting side out and cut the surface very lightly to be flat. Use some round stock of steel/aluminum
To match the hub size and cut both sides flat. You’d mount the drum on top of that then the two faces of the drum would be parallel to each other.

The slight difference was to minimal to go all out in my opinion.

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:50 pm
by ryderfmjones21
Alvin wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:39 am Vey cool!
For reference, here is a 15x7 +0 Konig, with rolled fender lips in rear:
Image
Front:
Image

16x7 (with 205/40/16 tires), rear fender lips rolled
Image

The milling technique is a great way to increase offset, but care must be given not to interfere with the calipers or front sway bar!

I actually did see this car before I started this little project and though the rolled fenders in the rear looked quite nice. Another reason I didn’t want to roll the fenders was because I had just painted this car and I was afraid to damage it! (The sky blue car)

As for the calipers and the sway bar. I was also concerned about this so I just left the front two wheels stock and did not machine them. You can tell they do sit a little proud if you stare at it for several hours like I tend to do.... but I didn’t mind. Clearance all around seemed to just work out haha!

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:51 pm
by ryderfmjones21
theunz wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:54 am Way to think out of the box. Looks like a nice fit. As for the fronts, how about some shorter springs? I'm envious of your access to the machine tools. I wouldn't have a clue as how to operate any of them short, of an old manual lathe, but would love the opportunity to learn.
I do think I’m going to get some comp springs for up front. I believe I will also have to lower the rear if I want the car level. Not exactly sure yet

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:58 pm
by Alvin
ryderfmjones21 wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:50 pm I actually did see this car before I started this little project and though the rolled fenders in the rear looked quite nice. Another reason I didn’t want to roll the fenders was because I had just painted this car and I was afraid to damage it! (The sky blue car)
I'd be wary of touching a freshly painted car too! Good call.
ryderfmjones21 wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:50 pm As for the calipers and the sway bar. I was also concerned about this so I just left the front two wheels stock and did not machine them. You can tell they do sit a little proud if you stare at it for several hours like I tend to do.... but I didn’t mind. Clearance all around seemed to just work out haha!
I don't see the two different offsets being an issue unless you wanted a square setup for rotation, etc. Rear leaf spring/inner wheel hub clearance starts becoming an issue as well with increased offset/width. Fork kicks, if you put the milled wheels up front, what is the spoke to caliper clearance now? Will a center cap be harder to fit?

Kudos for taking on the challenge and making them work for you!

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:33 pm
by ryderfmjones21
Alvin wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:58 pm
ryderfmjones21 wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:50 pm I actually did see this car before I started this little project and though the rolled fenders in the rear looked quite nice. Another reason I didn’t want to roll the fenders was because I had just painted this car and I was afraid to damage it! (The sky blue car)
I'd be wary of touching a freshly painted car too! Good call.
ryderfmjones21 wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:50 pm
As for the calipers and the sway bar. I was also concerned about this so I just left the front two wheels stock and did not machine them. You can tell they do sit a little proud if you stare at it for several hours like I tend to do.... but I didn’t mind. Clearance all around seemed to just work out haha!
I don't see the two different offsets being an issue unless you wanted a square setup for rotation, etc. Rear leaf spring/inner wheel hub clearance starts becoming an issue as well with increased offset/width. Fork kicks, if you put the milled wheels up front, what is the spoke to caliper clearance now? Will a center cap be harder to fit?

Kudos for taking on the challenge and making them work for you!
I’m pretty sure the the calipers could fit if .200” taken off
I’ll have to throw one of the rear wheels up front and see
If .200” was taken off the backside of the wheel.

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:35 pm
by ryderfmjones21
By the way my wonderful boss Ted devoted his Friday afternoon to help me hammer this out!
Thanks ted!

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:38 pm
by Alvin
ryderfmjones21 wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:33 pm I’m pretty sure the the calipers could fit if .200” taken off
I’ll have to throw one of the rear wheels up front and see
If .200” was taken off the backside of the wheel.
I wouldn't be surprised if clearance is still good. The Konig spoke profile is very caliper-friendly...Panasports aren't as forgiving!

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:13 pm
by nismou20
Nice work! So, the Konigs would fit by simply rolling the fenders like the one Alvin posted? The silver car? I’ve always liked these wheels too.

Re: How to fit a Konig 15x7 +0 rewind wheel on a roadster

Posted: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:23 pm
by Alvin
nismou20 wrote: Fri Sep 13, 2019 3:13 pm Nice work! So, the Konigs would fit by simply rolling the fenders like the one Alvin posted? The silver car? I’ve always liked these wheels too.
Tom, I think "fit" is a relative thing. It might look like it works static, but rub horribly when driven hard. Tire choice, suspension and model year will all influence "fit".