I've read all this talk about dropping the front a little more (than the sport springs offer) by lowering the lower spring perch. It sounds like it would work, but when I read people's descriptions I get a little thrown off.
I just did my front springs and shocks, and to my recollection, the lower spring perch is mounted to the lower A-arm via 4 bolts - 4 horizontal bolts. So when I read about slipping plates in to lower the perch and adjust the height something's not adding up. Am I missing something here? How is it done? Seems like there should be an "L" bracket in there of some sort.
If anyone has the set up, I'd love to see pics! I put the Mike Young springs in with the Monroe shocks and I still have pretty large gap between my tire and fender that I'd like to reduce. Granted, the springs should still "settle" but I'm thinking an extra 1-1/2 inches lower would do the trick.
Lower Spring Perch Pics?
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redlowwindow
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nismou20
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Front spring perch
Hi,
I myself would like to lower the front end about 1to 1.5 inches. The lower spring perch is held on to lower a arm by 4 horizontal bolts. Would it be possible to drill 2 more holes on the side that isn't supported, and just suspend the perch down by 6 straight pieces of flat steel and 6 bolts? This would allow us nonweldingtypes to fabricate without taking the a frames out as well. Do you think this is feasible? Like to get some opinions from those mechanical geniuses out there.
Tom
I myself would like to lower the front end about 1to 1.5 inches. The lower spring perch is held on to lower a arm by 4 horizontal bolts. Would it be possible to drill 2 more holes on the side that isn't supported, and just suspend the perch down by 6 straight pieces of flat steel and 6 bolts? This would allow us nonweldingtypes to fabricate without taking the a frames out as well. Do you think this is feasible? Like to get some opinions from those mechanical geniuses out there.
Tom
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nismou20
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front spring perch
Hi,
Better yet how bout in stead of 6 flat steel pieces,ues three square flat pieces with holes at the corner to suspend the perch. What ya think? More stability I think.
Tom
Better yet how bout in stead of 6 flat steel pieces,ues three square flat pieces with holes at the corner to suspend the perch. What ya think? More stability I think.
Tom
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DatsunBucky
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I've already given some thought to lowering the perches on my roadster, and I came up with the idea of two pieces of steel, about the same thickness as the factory perch, but with four holes in each one. The lowering piece would have to have a slight "S" shape to it, so one side of the plate would match up with the A-arm, and the other side of the plate would match up with the perch. If the plate is not bent, then the surfaces will meet at an angle, and if not tightened down completely, they could work their way loose. This is not a "good thing." Bolt the top of the plate to the A-arm, and the bottom to the perch. Put the spring back in and...voila! I don't think travel would be radically affected unless the tire hits something.
Because of suspension geometry, I think 1" lower on the perch would equal more than 1" at the car. In my mind's eye, it doesn't really seem too difficult and is easily reversible by just putting everything back the way it was. I don't think an alignment is necessary, although it's usually a good idea after any suspension work has been done.
All the cornering loads will still be transferred by the A-arms to the frame, so the only thing the lowered perches will do is lower the car. Please note that racers have found that excessive lowering can result in problems with the steering linkage hitting things under there.
Because of suspension geometry, I think 1" lower on the perch would equal more than 1" at the car. In my mind's eye, it doesn't really seem too difficult and is easily reversible by just putting everything back the way it was. I don't think an alignment is necessary, although it's usually a good idea after any suspension work has been done.
All the cornering loads will still be transferred by the A-arms to the frame, so the only thing the lowered perches will do is lower the car. Please note that racers have found that excessive lowering can result in problems with the steering linkage hitting things under there.
Bucky
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nismou20
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Spring perch lowering
Bucky,
You gave me a great idea, how about the same (2) S shaped pieces just welded to the perch with 2 holes at the top corners to bolt to the A-frame. It is not that much of a pain taking out the A-frame after all, and permanent weld would be stronger than 2 more bolts. There would be less chance of bolts loosening for slop. It would be just like an extended perch bolted by the original 4 bolts to the A-frame.
Tom, 69/2.0
You gave me a great idea, how about the same (2) S shaped pieces just welded to the perch with 2 holes at the top corners to bolt to the A-frame. It is not that much of a pain taking out the A-frame after all, and permanent weld would be stronger than 2 more bolts. There would be less chance of bolts loosening for slop. It would be just like an extended perch bolted by the original 4 bolts to the A-frame.
Tom, 69/2.0
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DatsunBucky
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Re: Spring perch lowering
Tom-nismou20 wrote:Bucky,
You gave me a great idea, how about the same (2) S shaped pieces just welded to the perch with 2 holes at the top corners to bolt to the A-frame. It is not that much of a pain taking out the A-frame after all, and permanent weld would be stronger than 2 more bolts. There would be less chance of bolts loosening for slop. It would be just like an extended perch bolted by the original 4 bolts to the A-frame.
Tom, 69/2.0
Yeah, that would work as well as what I imagined. Or one could weld to both the perch and the A-arm, but any welding is not easily reversible, and if the two bolts (per side) are strong enough in the stock configuration, then four grade 8s should be more than enough. Properly torqued down, there shouldn't be any loosening anyway. If a person were really paranoid about it, they could use lockwashers and nylock nuts. Or castellated nuts and cotter pins.
I was looking at avoiding welding because of the reversiblilty factor and the fact that my welds look like very badly healed scars. I tend to try to do things myself, although I do have a friend that does a very good job at welding. He's the one who did all the welding on my rollbar while I did all the notching and fitting. A couple of the notches were even done with a hacksaw and a cut-off wheel, because the notcher wouldn't go steep enough.
Bucky
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nomadtrash
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It is much easier and cheaper to buy a set of stock springs and then cut one coil off. Save your old springs so that you can put it back to original. The cut springs will have a higher spring rate and lower ride height. Don't get carried away and cut too much. You will need to trim the bumpstops too but don't go overboard with that either. If you go too low then the tie rod will hit the crossmember while you are trying to go around a corner. Pretty scary even if the tie rod doesn't break.
Andy Cost
Roadster-less
Bolt on modification? I did use some bolts!
Roadster-less
Bolt on modification? I did use some bolts!
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67 1/2 1600
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TR
Buy a 4" or 4.5" grinder and some cutting discs. Same price as having them cut and you will have the tool forever...
As for spacing the lower A-arm down, you would really need to do some development to get that right. Doing such would greatly increase the loading where the bolts join the frame and also changes the angles the wheel goes through as it travels up and down.
For safety reasons like mentioned, do not change the suspension mounting!
The simple way to go is shortening a spring. If the ride is too harsh, have someone lower the spring perch...
Also, lowering the car that much really limits suspension travel and therefore makes the car way less comfortable...Does make it look cool, though! TR
As for spacing the lower A-arm down, you would really need to do some development to get that right. Doing such would greatly increase the loading where the bolts join the frame and also changes the angles the wheel goes through as it travels up and down.
For safety reasons like mentioned, do not change the suspension mounting!
The simple way to go is shortening a spring. If the ride is too harsh, have someone lower the spring perch...
Also, lowering the car that much really limits suspension travel and therefore makes the car way less comfortable...Does make it look cool, though! TR
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nomadtrash
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You can cut them yourself with an angle grinder or hacksaw. Start by cutting exactly one coil off. The end coils are nearly flat and it won't seem like you are making much difference but you will.
To replace springs I usually take the swaybar off and take the shock and the four bolts holding the bottom plate to the a-arm off. This allows the spring to fall out the bottom and does not require separating the ball joints. With the spring and shock out and tire on you can then lower the car down with a jack. You will be able to see when the bumpstops start to engage. You can trim a little off the bumpstop and try again. Repeat the process until you are close to binding the tie rod on the cross member. The Bob Sharp manual which is avaliable on Gordons site for free download shows how to cut the bumpstops. Once the bumpstops are cut then you can install the cut springs and check the ride height. Also check the suspension under load to see if the bumpstops contact. The idea is for the bumpstops to never contact. Once the bumpstop contacts then the wheel rate goes to infinity. This causes complete loss of traction on that wheel. Cut your springs short enough that you get the desired look but not so short that the bumpstops contact during spirited cornering.
Cut springs will give you a higher spring rate and a lowered ride height. They will not be as stiff or as low as the comp springs.
To replace springs I usually take the swaybar off and take the shock and the four bolts holding the bottom plate to the a-arm off. This allows the spring to fall out the bottom and does not require separating the ball joints. With the spring and shock out and tire on you can then lower the car down with a jack. You will be able to see when the bumpstops start to engage. You can trim a little off the bumpstop and try again. Repeat the process until you are close to binding the tie rod on the cross member. The Bob Sharp manual which is avaliable on Gordons site for free download shows how to cut the bumpstops. Once the bumpstops are cut then you can install the cut springs and check the ride height. Also check the suspension under load to see if the bumpstops contact. The idea is for the bumpstops to never contact. Once the bumpstop contacts then the wheel rate goes to infinity. This causes complete loss of traction on that wheel. Cut your springs short enough that you get the desired look but not so short that the bumpstops contact during spirited cornering.
Cut springs will give you a higher spring rate and a lowered ride height. They will not be as stiff or as low as the comp springs.
Andy Cost
Roadster-less
Bolt on modification? I did use some bolts!
Roadster-less
Bolt on modification? I did use some bolts!
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nismou20
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Hi,
I have just installed some later model comp springs and must admit that the car is not any lower than with the original stock ones. My theory is that with the reduced spring rate of stock springs they tend to compress somewhat with the load of the car whereas with the increased spring rate of comp springs, even though they are shorter do not compress as much under load. Actually spmewhat of a let down but they sure do make a difference in the turns.
I actually took the pair of perches down to a welding shop and asked them if they could butt weld an extension on two mounting sides but they recommended against it. Something about the metallurgy I don't understand. They insisted the better way would be to cut out the bottom and weld another canister with the original bottom piece. Didn't have it done yet< I'm searching for another set so I can keep the originals if I need to raise it again in the future.
Tom
I have just installed some later model comp springs and must admit that the car is not any lower than with the original stock ones. My theory is that with the reduced spring rate of stock springs they tend to compress somewhat with the load of the car whereas with the increased spring rate of comp springs, even though they are shorter do not compress as much under load. Actually spmewhat of a let down but they sure do make a difference in the turns.
I actually took the pair of perches down to a welding shop and asked them if they could butt weld an extension on two mounting sides but they recommended against it. Something about the metallurgy I don't understand. They insisted the better way would be to cut out the bottom and weld another canister with the original bottom piece. Didn't have it done yet< I'm searching for another set so I can keep the originals if I need to raise it again in the future.
Tom
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RoadsterYosh1
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eastmedia
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Tom,
Give the springs a while to settle. Mine didn't seem much lower to begin with but after driving a week or so, the springs seemed to settle. Now even when I jack up the car for just a little, when I let it down it takes time to settle.
The handling with the Late comps is excellent. Did you change or cut your bump stops?
Ron
Give the springs a while to settle. Mine didn't seem much lower to begin with but after driving a week or so, the springs seemed to settle. Now even when I jack up the car for just a little, when I let it down it takes time to settle.
The handling with the Late comps is excellent. Did you change or cut your bump stops?
Ron
Ron
66 1600 Cherry
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66 1600 Cherry
69 1600 Beast
69 2000 Rough
67.5 1600 Basket Case (in the family)
66 1600 race car (Steve Allen's)
70 1600 survivor (sold 2020)
68 1600 Beauty (sold 2014)
68 1600 My first (sold 1991)