Freeing a seized R16

[theunz]

How about just leaving the car on the ground in gear and try rocking it with your body? You can create quite a bit of leverage, and the rocking motion works the crank in both directions. Good luck, mike

[redroadster]

If you have a way to heat the block some too, that will help some cast iron contracts more than aluminum when cold . Home hot water run through it
a bit of miratic acid ,a squirt or 2 to sit on the rings has been tried with success.
Jeep / chrysler made a very acid spray called ,heat riser penetrate that would free up a totally siezed header pipe nut so much over the weekend ,one time I could not figure out why I cant find a socket that grabs the nut ,then seeing I could turn it off with fingers

[mattanonymous]

I'm not able to see into the combustion chamber, but am planning on getting an endoscope camera (need it for house projects anyway) and will report back.

I've gotta adjust one of the rear brakes in order to free it up so I can get to rocking, but that's my plan for early this week.

Heating the block is something I've been thinking about. I've read about pouring 180 degree water into the block via the coolant inlet. It does sound promising in theory. Any reason not to try it? Maybe go with 150* first?

I siphoned out some of my mixture and went with a new mixture of 50% ATF, 50% Acetone and a splash Kroil. I think it might be leaking past the rings faster than my last attempt, but I'm still not getting any movement and am applying about 100 ft/lbs.

We'll see what happens once I can rock it back and forth. I'd like to give it at least another week before pulling the head and pan.

Thanks for all the suggestions,
Matt

[JT68]

Suggest you take off the head or just go ahead and pull it. My guess is the rings are rusted to the cylinder wall. (Seen this a dozen times). If you force it, you will break a piston or ring.

There isn't a safe meaningful way to heat the block. A propane torch will do nothing. An oxy/A torch will ruin the block. Hot water will do nothing.

If it isn't the pistons/rings, something may have been assembled incorrectly. If it is the rings there is little chance they will ever work properly again.

Taking off the head will show you what you have.

Chances are you are going to tear it down anyway, you may just want to pull it out. If the engine is siezed, there is a high probability of a dozen otherthings needing repair which are much easier with the engine out.

[redroadster]

Your best bet IMO would be to pull it ,the engine ,or head but if you get a flow of 170 degree water through it ,it will become 170 degrees ,cast iron gets slippery when warmed ( it is the 1st thing they learn ya in auto tech class)
Most likely ,is the pistons are trapped
You normally have .030 play between piston and wall ,rust can quickly expand on the walls trapping the piston worse in the ring area
Also you can ,with a hand hydro pump like from a porto power apply pressure to the cly where the piston is half way up & valves closed , easily to see if it breaks free

[JT68]

.001-003" I think you meant.

You could also simply apply 150 psi (basically the same as compression stroke) with an air compressor to a cylinder. Valves have to be closed, but you could just remove all the rockers to accomplish that. J

[fj20spl311]

You could also simply apply 150 psi (basically the same as compression stroke) with an air compressor to a cylinder. Valves have to be closed, but you could just remove all the rockers to accomplish that. J

You might try in "pairs" 1-4 or 2-3.
I still think pulling it apart after you get her to move is your best bet.

[JT68]

You could also simply apply 150 psi (basically the same as compression stroke) with an air compressor to a cylinder. Valves have to be closed, but you could just remove all the rockers to accomplish that. J

You might try in "pairs" 1-4 or 2-3.
I still think pulling it apart after you get her to move is your best bet.

Yep. I would want to see the cylinder walls where things are stuck.

[Gregs672000]

Ya, if it is that seized you're gonna have to get into it anyway, may as well just hit it now and get started...

[msampsel]

I think it was some ridiculous spec, like 160lbs. I don't recall ever getting it that high with the engine in the car...

Spec in the wiki, I got my crank bolt to spec with the engine in the car. Needed a very large torque wrench though and some shenanigans. Put the car in fourth gear IIR correctly.

[redroadster]

.001-003" I think you meant.

You could also simply apply 150 psi (basically the same as compression stroke) with an air compressor to a cylinder. Valves have to be closed, but you could just remove all the rockers to accomplish that. J

yes thanks .003
I worked for a time in the 80's at a salvage yard ,they had this process I described for a locked up motors if you saw no clear damage, putting a rust remover gel in then hydro pres then hot water through it , there was a flood car Saab 900 , super seized , finally it ran after a week

[JT68]

Yes, I realize it is possible to free them up. Have done this many times just to disassemble them.

Some engine designs will fair better than the roadster engine. Since the roadster cylinder bore is plain cast iron corrosion destroys the bores and will ultimately fail the rings and Pistons. Other engines with very hard/chrome cylinders will have minimal damage after sitting a long time.

If you are just trying to make it run and don't mind if it smokes or has low compression or both, it will run for a while.

If the walls do have heavy corrosion, the only way to fix it properly is to bore it, sleeve it or both. Compounds from the corrosion (iron oxide and aluminum oxide) are excellent abrasives, and will wipe out the existing pistons in short order. That's one main reason that pistons removed from an engine like this are usually scrap. (Skirts look like they were worked over with sandpaper.)

[mattanonymous]

Just wanted to provide an update. I pulled the head and a couple of the pistons had sludge on top of them. One looked like the sludge had turned solid at some point and is kinda difficult to get off. I tried knocking on the pistons with a wood block and mallet, but nothing budged.

Next, I drained the oil pan. Lots of water before the oil began flowing out. Pulled the pan and there's rust in there, of course. I sprayed everything I could with WD40 and PB Blaster. I don't plan on keeping the motor, but it'd still be nice to get it freed, so I've put the pan back on and my plan is to fill it with ATF to help penetrate the rust/corrosion on the bottom end.

I'm open to suggestions and critiques.

Thanks,
Matt

[redroadster]

Dynamite ? JK

Muratic acid is my 1st choice for a last resort it eats rust in hours

[JT68]

Not much worry about the pistons, but try not to damage the rods removing them.(no need to damage them)

You can easily remove the crank, then use a steel rod as a drift on the underside of the pistons and hammer them out from below.

The block will likely clean up with larger bore (.060+) pistons. Likely the block can be used for a stroker etc. if not otherwise damaged.