Best Budget Handling Upgrades?

[fj20spl311]

You should always check the torque of the lug nuts the next day, especially if the wife is going to be driving.

[bakerjf]

I had put the tires back on my Volvo, ran the lug nuts up quickly with a DeWalt 18v impact and then went back the next day to finish the brake job on the other side. About 300 miles later, my wife was driving it about 20 miles from home on a local road, called and said it felt funny. 5 minutes later was the come and get me call. It lost 2 of 5 lug bolts on the left front, 2 more were almost gone, and one was holding. Borrowed 1 lug from 2 other wheels jacked it up and got the wheel on.
So apparently forgot to torque the lug bolts and the battery in the DeWalt was getting low, so they were not very tight. I was ASE certified in a previous life, this was pure negligence. It's first time in 35 years playing with cars, but one time too many. It could have been a WHOLE lot worse, we were doing 70-80 mph the night before for 4 hours, could have been bad enough in a Volvo, deadly in a roadster.

Thank you for sharing! I think at some time most of us have done something like that, but we live and learn and hope someone won’t have to repeat it through personal stories like this.

[Lorna c]

always good to be reminded !

[MicVelo]

Necrobump of a dead thread.... and it's VERY LONG, you are warned! Laff...

I am in the process of "re-designing" (more like re-thinking) my suspension now that I've had enough seat time to see/know what it's doing (and not doing) that I want to change for MY style/type/abilities of driving.

Just to set the expectations, I am an ex-Datsun service/parts guy with a fair amount of experience with suspension builds. In addition, long time driving school attendee and advocate for "the one mod that transfers to every car you own." So much so that I'm often chided for how many times I use the #drivingschool reference on the Z33 forum. Hahaha.

Given all that said and out of the way, I will tell you this, I'm NOT going to do the work myself. Not that I can't do it, just at the stage of my life where I leave the questionable stuff to the pros (Hi, Rob!) because I just want to enjoy the drive. Haha.

Not expecting my roadster to handle like any of my Z33s with their $4k+ suspensions and 11" wide tires but, am aiming for a car that I have as much confidence in pushing (not a good word, ehh, but you get the idea) through an off camber sweeper in the hills with as little drama as I do my Zs. Given that, my plan at this point:

Assumptions: Driver skills OK (no Ayrton Senna but "OK"), rolling stock is set with Star Specs on a set of Rota RBs (at least for now), car has KYB gas shocks (on everything else stock) and they will be tossed out (sorry, never been a fan of KYB since the first set I owned in 1977 which seem to work OK with stock spring setups but add some spring to your car, I - and others - find them inadequate to control performance springs).

1. Baseline the working suspension - full inspection of and R&R any part of the suspension that's questionable and replace with new (or upgraded) parts where I'm going to anyways, e.g. shocks. This includes a full go-thru on the entire steering system, all bushings, base alignment, etc.

2. Once that's set, supporting mods: namely, brakes. Find the car's brakes to be wanting. They work but don't provide me with the modulation/feel I'm accustomed to and maybe I'm expecting too much. But will go through the system and see what's what. This might be as simple as addressing hydraulic issues...

Laff...the cure for all automotive evils.

...but might be as complex as going BBK (of some sort), but will see upon full inspection basic fixes first.

Above two items will be addressed in next month.

3. Then (and only then), the fun stuff: Appropriate spring sets chosen to work with JT Bilsteins (lonnnnng time fan of 'Steins); probably Mike Young fronts; not sure what to do with the rears.

So, finally, my questions for the braintrust:

- I'm highly accustomed to tuning my suspension using adjustable shocks and adjustable sway bars to my liking (slight bias towards oversteer) but so far, have only seen a front bar upgrade. To achieve my oversteer requirements (OK, "desire"), are there rear bars available for the roadster or will I be heading towards a fabricated rear bar (using angle-of-attack adjustment) to tune rear roll stiffness? (Or is that just through shocks?)

Yes, this may be premature thinking because I will be evaluating/testing each change as I go of course and may be satisfied as it is at any particular stage. I just like to know what options I may have.

- I've assumed that I'll be able to tighten up steering response AND reducing wandering/slop through new OE front end componentry (and of course, proper alignment). I've seen some alignment specs (thanks, Will) that seem logical at roughly -2.0 F&R camber, 0-toe, max caster. Is there enough (or any) adjustment in stock suspension components to adjust to these numbers following minor lowering and if not, as above, what components might be available to allow adjustment to spec after lowering? (On my Z33, I have adjustable UCAs and rear camber/toe adjusters; are such things available for roadster?)

I should emphasize that I'm NOT necessarily looking for total TRS (trick race shid) as its highly unlikely I'll put this car on the track; but.... am open to suggestions if such will help me dial it all in.

Any/all suggestions welcome.

If you made it this far, thanks! If not, you're welcome to my cure for your insomnia.

[Linda]

Haha, here's one easy answer: You need longer bolts to change to more aggressive alignment. Stock bolts can get loose too.
Linda

[MicVelo]

Thanks, Linda! Great start actually!

My list.... springs, big brakes, Bilsteins, longer bolts.... Hahahaha. But seriously, that helps.

[SLOroadster]

Necrobump of a dead thread.... and it's VERY LONG, you are warned! Laff...

I am in the process of "re-designing" (more like re-thinking) my suspension now that I've had enough seat time to see/know what it's doing (and not doing) that I want to change for MY style/type/abilities of driving.

Just to set the expectations, I am an ex-Datsun service/parts guy with a fair amount of experience with suspension builds. In addition, long time driving school attendee and advocate for "the one mod that transfers to every car you own." So much so that I'm often chided for how many times I use the #drivingschool reference on the Z33 forum. Hahaha.

Given all that said and out of the way, I will tell you this, I'm NOT going to do the work myself. Not that I can't do it, just at the stage of my life where I leave the questionable stuff to the pros (Hi, Rob!) because I just want to enjoy the drive. Haha.

Not expecting my roadster to handle like any of my Z33s with their $4k+ suspensions and 11" wide tires but, am aiming for a car that I have as much confidence in pushing (not a good word, ehh, but you get the idea) through an off camber sweeper in the hills with as little drama as I do my Zs. Given that, my plan at this point:

Assumptions: Driver skills OK (no Ayrton Senna but "OK"), rolling stock is set with Star Specs on a set of Rota RBs (at least for now), car has KYB gas shocks (on everything else stock) and they will be tossed out (sorry, never been a fan of KYB since the first set I owned in 1977 which seem to work OK with stock spring setups but add some spring to your car, I - and others - find them inadequate to control performance springs).

1. Baseline the working suspension - full inspection of and R&R any part of the suspension that's questionable and replace with new (or upgraded) parts where I'm going to anyways, e.g. shocks. This includes a full go-thru on the entire steering system, all bushings, base alignment, etc.

2. Once that's set, supporting mods: namely, brakes. Find the car's brakes to be wanting. They work but don't provide me with the modulation/feel I'm accustomed to and maybe I'm expecting too much. But will go through the system and see what's what. This might be as simple as addressing hydraulic issues...

Laff...the cure for all automotive evils.

...but might be as complex as going BBK (of some sort), but will see upon full inspection basic fixes first.

Above two items will be addressed in next month.

3. Then (and only then), the fun stuff: Appropriate spring sets chosen to work with JT Bilsteins (lonnnnng time fan of 'Steins); probably Mike Young fronts; not sure what to do with the rears.

So, finally, my questions for the braintrust:

- I'm highly accustomed to tuning my suspension using adjustable shocks and adjustable sway bars to my liking (slight bias towards oversteer) but so far, have only seen a front bar upgrade. To achieve my oversteer requirements (OK, "desire"), are there rear bars available for the roadster or will I be heading towards a fabricated rear bar (using angle-of-attack adjustment) to tune rear roll stiffness? (Or is that just through shocks?)

Yes, this may be premature thinking because I will be evaluating/testing each change as I go of course and may be satisfied as it is at any particular stage. I just like to know what options I may have.

- I've assumed that I'll be able to tighten up steering response AND reducing wandering/slop through new OE front end componentry (and of course, proper alignment). I've seen some alignment specs (thanks, Will) that seem logical at roughly -2.0 F&R camber, 0-toe, max caster. Is there enough (or any) adjustment in stock suspension components to adjust to these numbers following minor lowering and if not, as above, what components might be available to allow adjustment to spec after lowering? (On my Z33, I have adjustable UCAs and rear camber/toe adjusters; are such things available for roadster?)

I should emphasize that I'm NOT necessarily looking for total TRS (trick race shid) as its highly unlikely I'll put this car on the track; but.... am open to suggestions if such will help me dial it all in.

Any/all suggestions welcome.

If you made it this far, thanks! If not, you're welcome to my cure for your insomnia.

1. Yes, going through the whole system is a good idea. I would go no lower than the Nissan Comp front springs up front. The rear has a few options, A) leave stock. B) Find a set of Nissan Comp rear springs and have them re-arched to match the stock arch. (This is likely the easiest way to get a bit more spring rate on the back. The comp rear springs come flat, and arch backward under load. Leaf springs don't like to arch backward.) C) Get a set of mono-leaf springs, lowering blocks, and set the ride height that way. (There are a couple ways to go the mono-leaf route. Steel ones from Australia, or fiberglass ones.) You will need some good dampers to control the spring rates no matter what direction you go.

2. Brakes. The stock brakes work REALLY well if you have good pads and shoes on them. My car stops better than my BMW M3, and the roadster has stock brakes with good pads. One thing to remember, roadster brakes aren't power assist, its muscle assist and when in proper working order, offer fantastic feel and modulation (unlike power brakes that feel like mush and more mush.) The pedal should be very firm. If its mushy like power brakes, there is air in the system and the car won't stop.

3) See item one for rear springs. The Mike Young front springs work well, right on the edge of being too low. The Nissan Comps are slightly higher spring rate, and just a little taller, keeping the roll center above ground under compression.

If you are in the Bay Area, I'd be happy to take you for a spin in my car. (There is no TRS in my suspension) The car works really well as is.

Will

[ACote]

I'm very happy with my Mike young springs and 23mm roll bar. I did all the upgrades at once 6 years ago and the car felt much better at the auto cross with Will. Much flatter in the corners. It would be cool to get a baseline then add each part to see how well it affects the performance, but it was too convenient while knocking out the balljoints to add the springs and bar. Still have the stock rear and still need to install my Koni's. I'm not sure what's best, just sharing my experience.

[ct06033]

There is one more option for rear leafs, Flex-form. they are composite material and you can get whatever spring rate you like. the only downside is they are stock spring height so if you lower the front, you will need some lowering blocks on the rear.

I have the datsun parts super comp springs with JT shocks in front and flex forms @200ftlbs with off the shelf bilsteins in the back. its very flat through corners and with bf goodrich rubber on rota RBs, its amazing fun to drive. I dont think youll need a rear sway if you have the right setup IMO.

[dbrick]

One thing I may have missed in your post...Early or late steering box? U joint bearing caps size of nickle (early) or dime? Later box makes a big difference in feel and effort, IMHO.

[MicVelo]

Thanks everyone for suggestions/recommendations thus far! Not ignoring them, not by any stretch! Just got off plane at “home” (well, 2nd home) and trying to get everything set for rest of family arrival in a couple days! (Costco run, stock the condo, blah blah).

I will be digesting it all and as soon as I’m back stateside, it’s off to the shop for work over (tune and such) plus brakes and talk abiut suspension. Baseline tune and suspension/brakes evaluation.

Thanks!!! Keep ‘me coming!

[dbrick]

Have you downloaded the competition prep manual?
http://datsun.org/roadster/resources/compmanual.html

[theunz]

Rear anti-sway bars for the roadster do exist and pop up very occasionally, although I can only once remember someone speaking favorably of them. One thing I remember when I was young and driving mine everyday was the controlled oversteer. Seems like the rear would kick out a foot or so and then just stick throughout the corner. Lots of fun!

[ppeters914]

One thing I may have missed in your post...Early or late steering box? U joint bearing caps size of nickle (early) or dime? Later box makes a big difference in feel and effort, IMHO.

I know there's a preference for the later B steering box, but you're the first one I've heard/read say it makes a significant difference.

[MicVelo]

Have you downloaded the competition prep manual?
http://datsun.org/roadster/resources/compmanual.html

I have now!!! And what a small, old world it is indeed! I've not gone through it in depth as yet but.... this appears to be the same/original manual in use back when I was playing ace-number-one comp parts maven!! We're talkin 38 years here. Nice to see that its stood the test of time! Thanks, Dave!

I am in awe at the depth of knowledge on 311S.org and without the drama and petty sniping I see elsewhere, Ahem.

I'm 2500 or so miles away from my car so do not know which steering box is in it but will take a closer look in two weeks.