Tach Cable Seals and O-rings, was started as Any good rear main seal oil additives, that work?

[svwilbur]

I'm getting very confused.

the kit Dean sells #2687. has 3 items in it.
sizes below are approximate in inches, it has:

#1 a large o-ring about .934 OD and .764 ID
#2 a seal about .636 OD and .387 ID
#3 a nitrile flat washer that is about .762 OD and .222 ID

the only one that I know where it goes is #3 which I believe goes over the cable end and pushes back into the thumb screw cover as an attempt to seal any drips that make it past everything else. it seems like it could have been a bit larger as the thumb screw cover ID is .807 at the tops of the threads in it.

the #2 seal sounds like C Constine says it goes about 1 inch or so into the end of the housing from the cable end. and in his case may not fit properly for his. but it sounds like it is NOT the seal sort of thing that is in between the slotted drive shaft and the housing or bushing to the outside of it. see my end picture.

it sounds like msampsel may have put #2 at that place?

if it does not go there at the end what does go there???? Is there not a seal for that?? or is that black part in my picture a metal bushing? it looks like a seal with a bit of a taper. but with the open slot I can not see how that would ever seal anything.

also what direction should you mount the #2 seal?
what I mean is there is a grove on one side and just a flat on the other side of the seal. which side faces toward the cable end?

and where does #1 big O-ring go?
I have see people put it outside and or inside of the nut.

And what is that seal or bushing on the end. It is not in the kit from Dean?

can someone comment on the pic that has arrows for where the correct locations of the 3 items or are they really not known yet?

I attempted a guess in the middle picture

[svwilbur]

I guess it may be obvious after it is all torn apart. but I wanted to make sure I have all the correct parts and locations before starting the disasembly so the roadster is not disabled too long. it seems like I am missing at least one seal for the end with the slotted drive mechanism, uess that is a bushing or something. is Is there a replacement for that?

[svwilbur]

this is very confusing.
the tech wiki seems to indicate the oil seal goes at the very end next to the cable and not internal.
http://www.311s.org/pmwiki-311/pmwiki.p ... achOilSeal

that was "lifted from here" :
http://www.311s.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.ph ... p+to+themm

lots of conflicting data

the carpartsmanual does not help much either:
http://www.carpartsmanual.com/datsun/sp ... mounting#1

[C.Costine]

I'm getting very confused.

the kit Dean sells #2687. has 3 items in it.
sizes below are approximate in inches, it has:

#1 a large o-ring about .934 OD and .764 ID
#2 a seal about .636 OD and .387 ID
#3 a nitrile flat washer that is about .762 OD and .222 ID

the only one that I know where it goes is #3 which I believe goes over the cable end and pushes back into the thumb screw cover as an attempt to seal any drips that make it past everything else. it seems like it could have been a bit larger as the thumb screw cover ID is .807 at the tops of the threads in it.

the #2 seal sounds like C Constine says it goes about 1 inch or so into the end of the housing from the cable end. and in his case may not fit properly for his. but it sounds like it is NOT the seal sort of thing that is in between the slotted drive shaft and the housing or bushing to the outside of it. see my end picture.

it sounds like msampsel may have put #2 at that place?

if it does not go there at the end what does go there???? Is there not a seal for that?? or is that black part in my picture a metal bushing? it looks like a seal with a bit of a taper. but with the open slot I can not see how that would ever seal anything.


also what direction should you mount the #2 seal?
what I mean is there is a grove on one side and just a flat on the other side of the seal. which side faces toward the cable end?

and where does #1 big O-ring go?
I have see people put it outside and or inside of the nut.

And what is that seal or bushing on the end. It is not in the kit from Dean?

can someone comment on the pic that has arrows for where the correct locations of the 3 items or are they really not known yet?

I attempted a guess in the middle picture

Stacy, You have it right. The large O-ring goes where you point to in black, nothing goes where you point to in yellow, or red, and the seal goes inside where you point to in blue, and where the wiki tech says it should go. As far as direction of the seal, seals always go with the lip and opening side towards the oil, so yes the groove goes inside. The kit that I got had no #3 washer, but I'll bet that it goes on the outside end just under the cable housing, just as you say. msampsel never took his pinion shaft and gear out, He just removed the cable and placed a washer under the cable housing end. The only problem here is the size of #2 seal. Go back to my comparison pic. It is just waaaaay too big. I plan to take my parts list to Nissan and order the correct seal as the wiki tech says. I strongly suggest that you not dig any further into yours until either after Solvang or until you have the Nissan seal in hand. I would hate for you to have a seal that won't go in, and your old one is worse than it is now.

[msampsel]

O-ring goes at the black arrow.

Spring side of the seal towards the pressure side same as wheel bearing seals.
I removed my dizzy, and dizzy housing and was able to remove the old seal with care so I left the large nut in place.
I put my seal in from the green arrow side and pushed it in with an 11 mm socket, without removing the nut.
Had I removed the large nut from the housing I might have seen the o-ring (black arrow).

flat washer #3 goes inside the tach cable nut not the dizzy nut.

Interesting that my original seal from Nissan is the same size as the one which is too large.
I still find some oil out on the cable after all this though.

See ya in Solvang!

PS

Your red arrow ("what is this part?") looks (to me) like seal number 2 pushed out some.

[C.Costine]

O-ring goes at the black arrow.

Spring side of the seal towards the pressure side same as wheel bearing seals.
I removed my dizzy, and dizzy housing and was able to remove the old seal with care so I left the large nut in place.
I put my seal in from the green arrow side and pushed it in with an 11 mm socket, without removing the nut.
Had I removed the large nut from the housing I might have seen the o-ring (black arrow).

flat washer #3 goes inside the tach cable nut not the dizzy nut.

Interesting that my original seal from Nissan is the same size as the one which is too large.
I still find some oil out on the cable after all this though.

See ya in Solvang!

PS



Your red arrow ("what is this part?") looks (to me) like seal number 2 pushed out some.

So you are saying that you changed the inside seal at the blue arrow position without removing the pinion gear and shaft?

[msampsel]

O-ring goes at the black arrow.

Spring side of the seal towards the pressure side same as wheel bearing seals.
I removed my dizzy, and dizzy housing and was able to remove the old seal with care so I left the large nut in place.
I put my seal in from the green arrow side and pushed it in with an 11 mm socket, without removing the nut.
Had I removed the large nut from the housing I might have seen the o-ring (black arrow).

flat washer #3 goes inside the tach cable nut not the dizzy nut.

Interesting that my original seal from Nissan is the same size as the one which is too large.
I still find some oil out on the cable after all this though.

See ya in Solvang!

PS



Your red arrow ("what is this part?") looks (to me) like seal number 2 pushed out some.

So you are saying that you changed the inside seal at the blue arrow position without removing the pinion gear and shaft?

@C.Costine

Not sure I am saying "changed the inside seal at the blue arrow position" ... I did change the seal without taking off the big nut and the pinion gear and shaft were in place.
Wishing I had taken pictures. I got the seal out without too much problem after removing the dizzy and its housing.

Then I put the new seal in and slid it into position using an 11 mm socket.
This should have placed the seal close to where the blue arrow is showing.

This reduced my leaks considerably, but there is still a little oil at the tach cable.

If and when I do it again I will remove the big nut and replace the o-ring.

[C.Costine]

O-ring goes at the black arrow.

Spring side of the seal towards the pressure side same as wheel bearing seals.
I removed my dizzy, and dizzy housing and was able to remove the old seal with care so I left the large nut in place.
I put my seal in from the green arrow side and pushed it in with an 11 mm socket, without removing the nut.
Had I removed the large nut from the housing I might have seen the o-ring (black arrow).

flat washer #3 goes inside the tach cable nut not the dizzy nut.

Interesting that my original seal from Nissan is the same size as the one which is too large.
I still find some oil out on the cable after all this though.

See ya in Solvang!

PS



Your red arrow ("what is this part?") looks (to me) like seal number 2 pushed out some.

So you are saying that you changed the inside seal at the blue arrow position without removing the pinion gear and shaft?

@C.Costine

Not sure I am saying "changed the inside seal at the blue arrow position" ... I did change the seal without taking off the big nut and the pinion gear and shaft were in place.
Wishing I had taken pictures. I got the seal out without too much problem after removing the dizzy and its housing.

Then I put the new seal in and slid it into position using an 11 mm socket.
This should have placed the seal close to where the blue arrow is showing.

This reduced my leaks considerably, but there is still a little oil at the tach cable.

If and when I do it again I will remove the big nut and replace the o-ring.

The inner seal is not accessible without removing the large nut and then the pinion shaft. You must have replaced a seal at the green arrow point, which certainly would have helped, but you have to get inside to replace the actual seal.

[msampsel]

Maybe,

If this is so then how did I get the old original seal out?
My seal went in from the green arrow point (my original arrow).
But I pushed it farther down the bore with an 11 mm socket.

Maybe there is another inner seal, which I have not seen yet.
Regardless, the seal I inserted went further down the bore than the green arrow, whether it went as
far as the blue arrow I do not know.

And the next time I do this I will be removing the nut (unless other expert advice from Guru's at Solvang advice otherwise).
Will be reporting back if I get any additional infor.

[itsa68]

C Constine,

In my dizzy, an oil seal is installed inside the spindle housing nut to seal the spindle shaft. The older style spindle housing nuts used an o-ring that fits inside a groove. The new style has the oil seal pushed in to the .645 diameter opening to the very bottom.
I've gone out in the snow and pulled one of each kind for the shed.
The sizes given for the o-ring were obtained by measuring the o-ring removed from the old style shown in the pic. It did not leak when that old dizzy was in use.
(See attached pic for further info.)

tach seals.jpg

Hope this helps

Ray B.

[C.Costine]

C Constine,

In my dizzy, an oil seal is installed inside the spindle housing nut to seal the spindle shaft. The older style spindle housing nuts used an o-ring that fits inside a groove. The new style has the oil seal pushed in to the .645 diameter opening to the very bottom.
I've gone out in the snow and pulled one of each kind for the shed.
The sizes given for the o-ring were obtained by measuring the o-ring removed from the old style shown in the pic. It did not leak when that old dizzy was in use.
(See attached pic for further info.)



Hope this helps

Yes, that clears it up. Mine is a '67 so it makes sense that it would be older. No wonder the seal would not fit in mine. I wish that the guy that I bought it from could have told me that when I emailed him and explained my problem. Thanks Ray.
Ray B.

[msampsel]

Wow what a great explanation from Winnipeg in the snow too!

Mine is a 67 Dizzy and it is the new style (at least I hope it is) because the
seal I pulled out of it an replaced is the 0.64" outer diameter.
Proves I'm not totally nuts too!

Now if I can just get the targa running again ... Doh

[svwilbur]

itsa68, RayB.,

thanks for the explanations. on your pictures is the big nut piece that the seal or o-ring goes in being shown with the:
A. cable mount side toward us (the camera)
or
B. pinion side, distributor mount side toward us?

I think it is showing (A.) as there is some blue paint on it.

the second question is my cable connection end which shows the sloted drive mechanism sticking out about 1/8th to 1/16th of an inch has another seal or something at that cable end. any idea what that is? see the picture with the red arrow saying WHAT IS THIS PART?

from your discription and pictures the o-ring and the seal depending on if it is the old style or new style, would be located roughly in the same place about 3/4 of an inch or so from the cable conecting end. so it seems that the inner pinion drive (with the slot for the tachometer cable end with the nub on it) would be just hanging there suspended after it passed thru the seal or o-ring.

or was there another seal at the cable end of the pinion inner drive shaft you show with the gears?

[itsa68]

itsa68, RayB.,

thanks for the explanations. on your pictures is the big nut piece that the seal or o-ring goes in being shown with the:
A. cable mount side toward us (the camera)
or
B. pinion side, distributor mount side toward us?

I think it is showing (A.) as there is some blue paint on it.

the second question is my cable connection end which shows the sloted drive mechanism sticking out about 1/8th to 1/16th of an inch has another seal or something at that cable end. any idea what that is? see the picture with the red arrow saying WHAT IS THIS PART?

from your discription and pictures the o-ring and the seal depending on if it is the old style or new style, would be located roughly in the same place about 3/4 of an inch or so from the cable conecting end. so it seems that the inner pinion drive (with the slot for the tachometer cable end with the nub on it) would be just hanging there suspended after it passed thru the seal or o-ring.

or was there another seal at the cable end of the pinion inner drive shaft you show with the gears?

The "A" side which is the same side that the WHAT IS THIS part is installed.

WHAT IS THIS part looks to be a poorly installed oil seal which does not have the identification lettering facing towards you and should be installed deeper until it hits bottom.
See my pic, the line ends is where the oil seal end face should bottom about 3/4" deep. The old style shows where the groove for a no-ring is located. Old style or new style, both are a bottom of the bore type installation .
Only one seal is required inside the bore !

Cheers
Ray B.

[svwilbur]

itsa68,

you said: "Only one seal is required inside the bore !"


So then the cable end of the pinion housing, when assembled properly, will show the pinion shaft sticking out of the Seal about 1/2 and inch or more with the pinion housing around it. Just air where my "WHAT IS THIS PART?" is pointing to with the Seal pushed down 1/2 and inch or so and facing the other way so the lettering is facing out toward the cable end.

Correct?

I guess someone either stuck in an extra seal or never pushed it down all the way. and maybe stuck it in backwards.
I still don't know if mine is new or old style. I bought new style SEAL parts so if I open it up and I need the old style o_ring I will be stuck until I can find the o-Ring. Might be old style and someone bought the new style kit and just stuck the seal in as well anyways.

Also I assume that you have a large O-Ring behind the Big Nut on the threads where I indicated "Possible location for o-ring #1" in my earlier photo?