Rust control

[denniswagnerusa]

Having owned my 1600 for 35 years, and now restomodding it, I know that if I don't take measures to control rust there will be rust again requiring yet another repaint. Several problem areas include the rear of the front fender both high and low, the bottom of the panel behind the rear door post (in front of the rear tire), and the shelf under the headlights. A vertical channel between sheets of metal descends along the rear of the front fender creating a place for water to hide. Dirt easily collects in the back of the front wheel well where, when it gets wet, it can be a huge source of moisture.

My roadster resides in Florida where humidity is a problem so I want to protect the sheet metal in my car. I know very little about paint and body work but lots of info is available on the net. Unfortunately there seems to be more art than science involved in that field. Everyone has a different idea how to approach a paint and body issue.

Allow me to present how I would handle the front fender problems and see if you would agree. This is a photo of the rear of the front fender.

xn_IMG_6270.JPG

Rusted through holes

It has been dipped to remove all the paint, bondo, and rust and coated with epoxy primer on the outside and POR15 on the inside. I feel that all the surfaces that are reachable are protected, however under the spot welded metal exist spaces that cannot be reached. The ideal solution might have been to have it dipped again in primer but that was not offered. There is a desire to fix these holes such that they do not rust again.

xn_IMG_6273.JPG

POR 15 inside fender

I've learned that fiberglass filler, Bondo Glass, is very water resistant. My plan would be to fill the holes from the back with Bondo Glass and where they cannot be reached they would be filled from the front. The POR15 and epoxy primer would be roughed up first to accept adhesion and the back side would be coated with POR15, when reachable, at the end. Regular Bondo would be used to finish out the front with primer sealer after to keep it dry.

The vertical channel in the sheet metal at the rear of the fender would be sealed all around except the bottom. The inside of the fenders would also be sprayed with rubberized undercoating.

Does this seem like a good plan?

[denniswagnerusa]

Another quick observation. That POR15 stuff is amazing. It is a hard plastic coating, encapsulating the metal so moisture cannot get to it. The prep is demanding and the fumes could kill you but when you get it painted there is great confidence moisture is not going to get to whatever it covers. I wish it came in a spray for the outside of the car.

[pebbles]

souinds like a good plan. replacing the metal is best for longevity however. "bondo glass", or USC Duraglas is very durable and water resistant. can be used as a finishing filler, but not recommended (by me)
There is some stuff called gorilla hair engineered to bridge larger holes. hard to work with as a finishing filler.

I agree Dennis, some of the paint forums haggle more than swap&stock here!! ,

project is looking great BTW

one more note, if you have a barometer, 25 -50 percent humidity and under 80 degrees.

[Gregs672000]

I have been very pleased with SEMS Rust Seal, however it is a rust converter designed to convert and permanently seal rusted areas (does not require that it be covered by paint etc afterwards, but that doesn't hurt and can be done), but I'm not sure it is the product of choice on areas that are without rust yet. However, in areas like the inside of the rear fender wells in front of the wheels, it is generally easy to apply and the prep primarily involves wire brushing, blasting with compressed air, vac etc until it is as clean as possible. No fumes to kill you, will stain your fingers. In order to help it get to where it needed to go, I would apply some with a paint brush, then use compressed air with a light but effective pressure to help blast it into areas that I could not see or be sure to hit with the brush. You don't want to pile it on as it just slows the drying process or can result in a sticky area. Two coats are recommended. My car was an absolute rust bucket where even the replacement panels installed by the PO were rusted through (!), but 29yrs later the rust has not returned post SEMS Rust Seal application.

That sheet metal area where the fender mounts to the body is a tough area to seal up due to layers of sheet metal. I do feel that you could either use the existing rust holes from the outside or drill small holes from the back side through the top sheet metal that is the fender mount, blast that area with compressed air to get any remaining sand etc out btween the sheets (if there is any) and use the SEMS and compressed air to push it into that area, sealing the backside of the outside sheet metal.

[denniswagnerusa]

I was going to try the SEMS rust product in the area you recommended. Never thought about using air to push the rust inhibitor to unreachable areas.

[denniswagnerusa]

As for the humidity question, I don't think it ever gets below 50% here in Orlando. Today was an unusually cool dry day and the humidity was 57%. I use a heat gun before spraying or painting and hope it takes out some of the moisture.

[denniswagnerusa]

Others have recommended cutting out the bad metal and replace it or some have recommended TIG welding the holes shut. Doesn't that create a new problem where fresh bare metal is exposed inside the fender where it may not be reached with coatings?

[Skyman]

I've used Rust Bullet with much success. Gives you some options to POR15.

http://www.rustbullet.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Gregs672000]

Others have recommended cutting out the bad metal and replace it or some have recommended TIG welding the holes shut. Doesn't that create a new problem where fresh bare metal is exposed inside the fender where it may not be reached with coatings?

I wish I could guide you better here but I'm really just an amature that just try's stuff! Any trained body workers wanna chime in here?

[pebbles]

Nope,,, lol.
I've never had much (or any for that matter) luck at welding rust holes. Trying to weld those holes will likey enlarge them to a point of having to cut it all out and replace it. IMO the front fender carries some flex load in that area and any plastic filler will eventually fail, (8 to 10 years?) welding in new metal and sealing it should be no problem. A product such as POR has a very low viscosity and will creep / run everywhere.

[jrusso07]

Welding to rusted areas is not advised. You have to have full thickness, clean metal to weld to, else you just blow right through the weak metal. So you should cut out all the rust.

For the inner seams, (not visible) there are a number of good "seam sealer" products. I have used 3M exclusively. I have used a 3M product that comes in a tube for a caulking gun and another that is in a can that is brushable. Seam sealers remain pliable after they cure so if there is any movement between the panels (like the butress on the front fenders and the outer fender) it doesn't crack. It's paintable too.

[denniswagnerusa]

Was planning to use a seam sealer around the vertical channel in the rear of the front fender and the ledge under the headlight. Good point about the water-like viscosity of POR15. Might be able to get into places I did not expect.

This what I have to fix on the front fender.

xn_IMG_6276.JPG

It was apparently in an accident at least 35 yrs ago. Someone repaired the area with thick bondo and it lasted about 30 years. Water got in from behind to eventually cause the adhesion to fail.

This is an area that I plan to fill with Bondo Glass, one thin layer at a time, and seal behind with POR15. The white coating is epoxy primer on bare dipped metal. The gray is POR15 that leaked from the back. A body man I talked to wanted to hammer the hell out of it, but that may not be needed because of my confidence in fiberglass filler and careful sealing.

If some of my rust repairs come out OK there might be confidence to try to do all the body work such that I need only pay for painting. Much info is available on the net. Bought an old Corona with dents in every panel in the 80's and practiced my body work and then painted it. Came out OK on the body work but the paint was bad because of a dirty paint booth. Thought I knew enough to do the body work on this 1600 when it was repainted around 1990. Did what I thought was a credible job, took it to the painter, and he found $800 of body work to do before he painted it.

I learned a lot from my mistakes. More resources are available to refine my meager skills. Might take it on. If it fails in a year I will know another way to not do it.

[Gregs672000]

Body work requires patience and practice. I am a total amature, but have learned a lot over the years, especially having started with and done several black cars... Talk about unforgiving! Take your time and be prepared to have to keep working places you think should be done by now, only to find/feel a slight woopie (low/high spot) just when you thought you were done! Spraying a light speckled black guide coat from time to time (rattle can primer type) can really help.

If the car is going to be dark, pay extra attention to how the panels match each other... I like it when the reflection is consistent from fender to door to rear fender... Not easy, especially when the car has had some work done before. I like to lay something bright down on the floor and then check the reflection back and forth. Also, using a light cloth or piece of paper under your hand when running over panels will help you pick up highs and lows. Use more palm, not your fingers.

Don't stop until its really done. I spaced or got lazy on the bottom passenger rocker and can see it every time.

Regarding your front fender, it will respond to some hammer work and would be time well spent I think. Get it as straight as possible and use less plastic. Also, consider using the plastic filler All Metal or similar, as it is aluminum reinforced and is very strong. Not so good as a top filler, but better IMHO than fiberglass reinforced stuff. I also LOVE Evercoats filler that comes in a tube... More expensive but is BY FAR the best filler I've ever used, and will save you a ton of time, money and sand paper cause it doesn't clog the paper... Sands like butter and feathers beautifully.

Paint is 80% bodywork, at least. It is labor intensive and can be frustrating, but once the paint is on there's no going back!