Datsun Roadster Forum-311s.org

Hi all...

I'm doing a full rebuild of the rear axle and brakes on the girl... I'm caught in that never-ending lure of "hey, while I'm in there" fixes. I pulled the torque rod and one of the bushings is toast. Not completely gone, but pretty worked over. I'd like to replace said bushings on both ends with new ones.

Does anyone know of a source for such bushings? The original Nissan part number is 55405-25500 and is called "BUSH-TORQUE ROD" I've got a hydraulic press and would be happy to fit up an aftermarket bushing into the original torque rod...or one from a current car that measures the same.

Any thoughts? Websites with bushing specs I could match up? Sources for re-manufactured bushings for our beloved Roadsters?

Thanks!!!

Cap'n Ron. . .

Here's a quick "rough measure" if that's helpful...

Thanks!

Cap'n Ron. . .

Cap'n

Try the Energy Suspension catalog.
http://energysuspension.com/assets/file ... atalog.pdf

Mostly just a bump...I'm striking out everywhere searching for this bushing. I can't be the only one to ever replace these?

The challenge is trying to find measurements for the few I'm finding. That standard, "What car is this for?" "...Oh, we don't have that."

I'm about to mass-email manufacturers to see if they can match this up with something from another car. I'll post the results if I'm sucessful! Cap'n Ron. . .

Energy suspension has some universal stuff you could use, might have to turn it down to size. I'd guess it's probably pretty easy to find a good used one amongst the usual suspects?. Post a classified wanted and see.

What is "toast" about it? The "filler"? or the metal inner?

What about making new ones out of delrin? They'd be self lubricating, and won't wear out quickly. (Not that 40+ year old rubber has worn out quickly.) They would have to be pressed in, but so would anything else. No play, no flex, possibly better control of the axle. I can't see a downside

Another thought is to have some bushings machined from aluminum or something, and install some sealed bearings into both sides of each of the bushings. These might bind with a side load however.

I'm just tossing ideas out. I'd be willing to try either of those designs however.

Will

Prothane has a good selection, like Energy Suspension.

Linda

dbrick wrote:Energy suspension has some universal stuff you could use, might have to turn it down to size. I'd guess it's probably pretty easy to find a good used one amongst the usual suspects?. Post a classified wanted and see.

At this point, I think robbing a good one from a used torque rod is the most likely solution...

Cap'n Ron. . .

Garm wrote:What is "toast" about it? The "filler"? or the metal inner?

It's the "filler"... The bushing on the frame end has the rubber inners torn up quite a bit. So much so, that it's got a lot of slop in it in trying to put traction to the ground.

Cap'n Ron. . .

SLOroadster wrote:What about making new ones out of delrin? They'd be self lubricating, and won't wear out quickly. (Not that 40+ year old rubber has worn out quickly.) They would have to be pressed in, but so would anything else. No play, no flex, possibly better control of the axle. I can't see a downside

Another thought is to have some bushings machined from aluminum or something, and install some sealed bearings into both sides of each of the bushings. These might bind with a side load however.

I'm just tossing ideas out. I'd be willing to try either of those designs however.

Will

Hey Will...Some good thoughts there for sure. I've used Delrin in some custom suspension applications where I was only interested in one axis of motion...and of course, the durability and lubricating qualities of Delrin. I've also used Johnny Joints and Heim Joints where flex was the primary concern, but they don't provide any *shock* absorption...

Fine for my Rock Crawler: In the Roadster application, some dampening is required...so the original rubber "filler" material worked nicely. There is also some "flex" required as the axle cycles through it's motion. There isn't a lot of movement in each of the factory bushings, but there is some. When you add the two together, they are able to take up the angles required as the axle moves. If you lock up both of those ends to strictly rotational movement, you'll tear the mount off the frame...or the axle.

Read quite a bit about the frame mount commonly getting torn off the frame...even with the flexy rubber bushings...and sure enough...mine has been re-welded at least once already. Pulling a used bushing would be a step in the right direction, but 46 years has a tendency to make flexy rubber act like solid Delrin.

I might re-make and weld in a new reinforced frame bracket (overkill) for this torque rod if I can't find new squishy bits to press in.

Cap'n Ron. . .

Linda wrote:Prothane has a good selection, like Energy Suspension.

Linda

I love the flow of ideas...I now have the Prothane website bookmarked (thank you!). Might be able to make something from them work.

Cap'n Ron. . .

Cap'n Ron wrote:

SLOroadster wrote:What about making new ones out of delrin? They'd be self lubricating, and won't wear out quickly. (Not that 40+ year old rubber has worn out quickly.) They would have to be pressed in, but so would anything else. No play, no flex, possibly better control of the axle. I can't see a downside

Another thought is to have some bushings machined from aluminum or something, and install some sealed bearings into both sides of each of the bushings. These might bind with a side load however.

I'm just tossing ideas out. I'd be willing to try either of those designs however.

Will

Hey Will...Some good thoughts there for sure. I've used Delrin in some custom suspension applications where I was only interested in one axis of motion...and of course, the durability and lubricating qualities of Delrin. I've also used Johnny Joints and Heim Joints where flex was the primary concern, but they don't provide any *shock* absorption...

Fine for my Rock Crawler:

Fleeeeex.JPG

In the Roadster application, some dampening is required...so the original rubber "filler" material worked nicely. There is also some "flex" required as the axle cycles through it's motion. There isn't a lot of movement in each of the factory bushings, but there is some. When you add the two together, they are able to take up the angles required as the axle moves. If you lock up both of those ends to strictly rotational movement, you'll tear the mount off the frame...or the axle.

Read quite a bit about the frame mount commonly getting torn off the frame...even with the flexy rubber bushings...and sure enough...mine has been re-welded at least once already. Pulling a used bushing would be a step in the right direction, but 46 years has a tendency to make flexy rubber act like solid Delrin.

I might re-make and weld in a new reinforced frame bracket (overkill) for this torque rod if I can't find new squishy bits to press in.

Cap'n Ron. . .

You are right, some side to side movement is needed on those. Lou Mondello read the thread and sent this to me this morning.

" I learnt the hard way years ago that polyurethane, nylon, etc does not work as a replacement. I made a set in polyurethane and when fitted, the car got real skatey and tail happy. This car im referring to ran twin torque rods.The stiffness of the polyurethane does not allow the axle to droop down on an angle when cornering. The original bushings are pretty stiff front to back to control the axle wind up but very soft sideways to allow the axle to droop cross ways when cornering. The bushings are wasted away on the sides to allow this movement. You can do this test yourself, jack the left hand or right hand side of the car up till the rear wheel just leaves the ground and measure the droop you have with and without the torque rod hooked up. Both readings should be the same. With the poly bushings fitted to the car i mentioned before, i think i only got 15-20mm mm of droop before the wheel left the ground as opposed to 65mm with the torque rods removed. I'm sure on a standard car running the single torque rod, the stiffer bushings will not limit the droop as much as what i discovered, however its still not a good idea. We have been using modified Volvo Torque rods to overcome this bushing replacement issue. They do no limit the droop what so ever. I'm still looking for a mono-ball or something similar that i can replace the original bushings with. Rose joints can be made to work with a new rod but they transmit a lot of noise into the car. I'm hoping somebody somewhere will make quality replacement rubber bushes."

You could always try a set of traction bars on the springs. They will serve the same purpose, but you have to remove the torque rod all together to keep things from binding. I tried a set on my car when I was still running the comp springs. I haven't tried on the mono-leafs since the U bolts aren't long enough to mount the ones I have. Also, my current setup works pretty well.

Will

I have a spare rear end that has half a torque rod attached - torque rod was cut when the rear end was dropped. So I have one you can have for shipping (will ship the 1/2 torque rod with bushing installed). If interested, PM me?

Also, these look a lot like front control arm bushings for 510s and Z's. Maybe do some research in that space?

Have you looked at any of the motor mounts or transmission mounts for the front wheel drive cars. My 84 Rabbit uses round motor mounts for the trans and front of engine. Just a thought here.

Rich