First Autocross?

[Skyman]

My Brother in law is trying to talk me into doing an autocross race this Sunday. He is doing a bunch of tinting for Audi, and they are going to have a couple of cars there. So, for the first time racer, do you have any advice? I hear the venue is very tire friendly.

Also, I only have about 800 miles on my rebuild. Am I nuts to do this?

Kyle

[notoptoy]

My advice: Have fun and take lots of pictures (or video -even better!).
Most importatntly share your experience with the rest of us!
Tom

[zippy67roadster]

I'm with Tom. Drive it like you stole it and get some great video. These events are very safe so don't worry about damaging your baby! It is great expierence as you will learn how your car acts in certain turns ect. This will help you become more confident in your driving as well as what you might want to change on the car to make it handle the way you want it to.

[SLOroadster]

First autoX? Nice. Odds are you won't get out of 2nd gear unless its a really open course. 800 miles on the engine should be enough to get everything seated, I'd do an oil change and give everything a good once over to make sure everything is tight.

You will learn more about your car in one day of autoX than years of street driving. Unless there are poles in the parking lot to hit, there is very little you can do to hurt the car. Just make sure everything is tight, and the wheel lug nuts torqued. Don't worry about being slow, everyone is slow to begin with, you get faster as you learn the car, and where you can and can't get away with driving really hard. Depending on the set up of your car, you will either have a car that pushes in the corners, or a tail happy one. You might end up with one that is both at the same time (its frustrating, it will push at first, you lift off throttle and it snap oversteers.) Autocrossing a roadster can be maddening, and really rewarding. You get it right, and you know it, and the time will show it. When you get it wrong, sometimes you just can't get back on track. I've had days where I have only improved 2 tenths of a second, across all my runs, (and just been slow, and backward) and others where I have been really on and just missed out on TTOD. I'll tell you right now, you should be able to give any Audi a run for its money through the cones, especially if its a tighter course. They are big cars that don't like to turn that well (I'm talking in stock showroom form here.) Keep it smooth, walk the course, and try to maintain as much momentum as you can. You can get away with lots of things if the course is on the narrow side, and if its wide open you might be able to not have to brake where others do. Watch and learn as you go. Get as many rides with other driver as you can as well.

Will

[dbrick]

Will, any suggestions on tire pressure? That would probably be the biggest help for an enjoyable day.Should he bump the pressure up to keep the sidewall from rolling over? I remember when I ran at Lime Rock (not autocross, road course, but...) They had me up the pressure about 8 pounds, made a world of difference, but autocross is a whole different animal.

[Skyman]

Will, any suggestions on tire pressure? That would probably be the biggest help for an enjoyable day.Should he bump the pressure up to keep the sidewall from rolling over? I remember when I ran at Lime Rock (not autocross, road course, but...) They had me up the pressure about 8 pounds, made a world of difference, but autocross is a whole different animal.

I'm running about 28 lbs now. Falken Azenis RT215's 190/60/14.

[SLOroadster]

On Falkens, max them out. If you are on the old style Falkens, you have fairly solid sidewalls, so you might be able to get away with something in the high 30s, but better to start high and bleed off. You will want an accurate tire gauge that allows you to drop an accurate pound at a time. Your tires are old so they might not have the grip that you think. (they might not have many miles on them, but age takes its tole on the rubber.) They might feel fine on the street, but when you really push them they will let you know. As you run, the tires will likely heat up, and not necessarily evenly so check your tires after each run. If the car is oversteering a lot, take some air out of the front, if its pushing, take it out of the rear. You might need to have as much as a 10 lb difference between the front and rear. (On the Hankooks I'm running on the Alfa, I run 38/28 and its pretty neutral with a touch of on throttle oversteer. A friend who runs a 510 on 615s has come to the same conclusion.)

For a first autoX, go out and have fun. Learn the car, then start worrying about air pressure. Just make sure you start out high, and when you do take air out, do it from one end or the other, not all 4 at the same time. I don't know how many runs you will be getting, but feel the car out first, then start playing with things. Hopefully you will get a boatload of runs split up in a morning and afternoon session so you can learn the car in the morning, and play with things in the afternoon. Thats what I like about running with the PCA, two run sessions, and 5 or 6 runs in each. More bang for your $, and it is a lot more forgiving than 4 runs total in one session. Either you are on, or your not in that case. Most importantly, go out and have fun. IF you end up liking it, get a second set of wheels and get some race tires, then you can get serious.

Do you have a LSD rear end or just an open one? If you only have an open diff, keep the car as settled as possible, if you lift the inside tire at all, you will just sit there and roast it off till the car unloads and puts the weight back on both tires. (frustrating) You won't be any faster thrashing on the car, you'll just roast the tire more. If you have an LSD, learning how to throttle steer will prove to be both fun and fast If there is anyplace to spin the car, an autoX is the place, nothing to hit, and the course workers will red flag the car behind you so you don't get hit.

Will

[notoptoy]

Will:
Thanks for all the great tips. Really sound and practical stuff. Especially the repeated " have fun" part!!
Tom

[Skyman]

Good advice, Will. My tires are about three years old, but only about 800 miles on them. I have a 4.11 limited slip in the rear. In some spirited street driving, when the rear end locks up, it sure straightens things out. How does tire pressure effect alignment?

Kyle

[SLOroadster]

Tire pressure should not affect alignment at all. As for the tires, do you have the 215s or the 615s? 215s were a better tire, the 615s get really greasy when they get warm (in other words, they stick better at 32 degrees than at 90. That said, the more consecutive runs you get, the less grip you will have as the tires heat up (backward from a race tire.) If you have the 615s you will want to run as much pressure as you can. With a 4.11 rear end, unless you are on a really open course, 2nd gear will be all you need. If its really wide open, you might see the middle of 3rd.

My tactic is to grab 2nd as fast as I can, use a drag race type start (yes, light the rear end up) and grab 2nd as soon as you get some momentum going forward (I do this in the Alfa as well.) Try to resist the urge to drop down to 1st through really slow corners, you should be able to get through it in 2nd. I've found it faster to bog the engine a little than to downshift, then upshift again at corner exit. Should you find yourself on a fast open course where you do use 3rd, you will have to downshift back to 2nd at some point. When you do so, match your revs (heel and toe the downshift) it will help keep the car settled. Unsettling a roadster at corner entry is a quick way to end up backward. Look for a late apex for the corner as well (unless the corner opens up into a really wide straight, then just go for it.) The late apex will create a bit of a "slow in fast out" senerio. Not a bad thing, sometimes it allows for early application of power in the corner (watch a few of the videos I've posted with this in mind) The earlier you can get back on the power the faster you are out of the corner. The other added benefit of the late apex is that you could have room to drift out of the corner. To start out, think smooth lines through the corners, and as you learn where you can get away with chopped apexes, and other ways of getting around the course, you can tighten your line up. You can also use quick jabbs of the throttle to get the rear end to rotate (assuming the front end has enough grip to not plow.) Every autoX is different so you kinda have to learn to feel things out as you go.

Will

[DatsunBucky]

Kyle-

I see the event is at the E-Center. A couple years ago they "sealed" the parking lot surface, presumably to make it less susceptible to the weather. The end result for events is there is less grip than before, and if it rains, it's ice. I don't yet know if I have to work Sunday, but if I can make it, I'll look you up. I'm an old f*rt, so maybe I can offer some advice that the kids today overlook. For instance, that big round thing that sticks out from the dashboard is just as important, if not more, than the "loud pedal."

I also agree with Will, start out with higher-than-normal pressure in the tires. It's easier to bleed off some air than to add some.

Our cars being narrow sometimes helps in that we can turn less. Less turning = going straighter. With very few, very rare exceptions, a straight line is ALWAYS faster than a curved line.

You're not quite there yet, but the geezer's creed is "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm every time."

[Skyman]

Kyle-

I see the event is at the E-Center. A couple years ago they "sealed" the parking lot surface, presumably to make it less susceptible to the weather. The end result for events is there is less grip than before, and if it rains, it's ice. I don't yet know if I have to work Sunday, but if I can make it, I'll look you up. I'm an old f*rt, so maybe I can offer some advice that the kids today overlook. For instance, that big round thing that sticks out from the dashboard is just as important, if not more, than the "loud pedal."

I also agree with Will, start out with higher-than-normal pressure in the tires. It's easier to bleed off some air than to add some.

Our cars being narrow sometimes helps in that we can turn less. Less turning = going straighter. With very few, very rare exceptions, a straight line is ALWAYS faster than a curved line.

You're not quite there yet, but the geezer's creed is "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiasm every time."

I think I fit the old geezer category more than the kid category. Close, but not 50 yet. I haven't seen you for quite a while, it will be good to see you again. You still working for the same place?

I'm going to be pretty mellow for my first rodeo. If you do come by, make sure to stop and say hi. Its always good to get another roadster perspective.

Kyle

[Skyman]

Here are some shots of my first autocross event. It was a real learning experience for sure. Did 4 runs in the morning and 4 runs in the afternoon. I improved by 13 seconds by the end. Some of those guys have some serious skills. The best time of the day was given by a Lotus Elise followed by a 2002 Corvette then a 2005? Honda S2000. The guy in the Honda was a instructor driver. He was begging me to let him take me for a drive in my car. So I did. I can't believe how he drove that thing and he said he was taking it easy! You can tell he was driving by the smoking tires.



Here's me.



Here's me and my Daughter.



Link to the album.

http://community.webshots.com/album/577 ... =community" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was a lot of fun. DatsunBucky came out to cheer the Datsun on also.

[SLOroadster]

I'm glad you had fun. Catching an Elise is not easy. Those things are stupid fast straight out of the box. Vettes can be fast, but I think with a set of race tires on your car you should be able to up and run away from it. The S2000 can be fast, but again with a set of race tires, you would be as fast if not faster. I'd bet with a few small changes, and some more experience, you could be right there.

Looking at the car, it looks pretty good. How was it from the drivers seat?

Will

[notoptoy]

Great pics, glad you had fun, that was the initial real goal, right? What's next -IMSA, NASCAR??