Price Appreciation

[jamesw]

I'm always surprised when I read people say "I don't care how much my car is worth." This post is a follow up to my point above - which was my attempt to show one of the reasons that it is GOOD that our cars go up in price/value. The more valued and expensive cars get restored - plain and simple.

Cheers
James

[Thomcraft]

Here is what I know....I've lived in western Montana and North Idaho all my life.
Granted the population is comparitivley low, but I haven't seen another roadster since graduating high school 1977.
Since then I can honestly say I haven't laid my eyes or hands on one other than mine, sans the internet. You might say that guy needs to get out more. I've done my share of traveling plus five year navy stint. 50 out of my 55 years in the Pacific Northwest. Closest datsun car show is Matsuri up in BC. And yes I'm long overdue to attend. To make a short story long, I have seen all kind of vintage and "collectible". Mustangs, cobras, cudas, corvettes, mg, triumph, 240z, aston martin, fiat, bentley, dmc, etc. Even owned a few of those. We even have a very popular car show here in Coeur d'Alene annually called "Car d'Lane". Any make or model pre 1974 is allowed. Not one Datsun 311 in the bunch. Just say'n.
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[OldYeller]

[quote][I'm always surprised when I read people say "I don't care how much my car is worth." This post is a follow up to my point above - which was my attempt to show one of the reasons that it is GOOD that our cars go up in price/value. The more valued and expensive cars get restored - plain and simple./quote]

You're right, James. What I was conveying (or trying to) was that I don't plan on selling my car and in that regard price is not relevant. Of course it must be a factor if you are thinking of buying, selling or restoring.

In wine they talk about QVR: Quality to Value Ratio. Basically I look for wines with great quality, high ratings if they have been reviewed (it helps sell the wine) and a price that is below market. Same idea as looking for undervalued stock...Do you think Roadsters have high QVR?

[RCMike]

It's funny, with my VW bus we went thru a huge price jump a few years back.. They have their own version of the '67.5 2 liter, it's the early 60s 23 window... They were worth realistically about $60-70k. And one sold at auction for $198k plus fees.

There's a huge upside. Every part that is now unobtanium, that you currently have to have made or go find a parts car to steal the piece from, all of it becomes available.. Literally within weeks, there was a guy in Texas who started making factory quality sheet metal. The plastics that had not been made because there was not enough market for them were suddenly available.. Need a factory interior kit? Factory door cards and front kick panel? Looking for a seat frame? Hey, we make those now! Because suddenly, every car that had a tree growing thru it was ready to be restored..

The down side was the segment that wanted to buy the cars and restore them and sell them to the investor crowd grew immensely, and the 'my car is more collectable than your car' crowd, and the 'don't you dare modify your car, or do something stupid and modern like putting a 12 volt system in it' crowd got a lot more vocal. It made going to a lot of the events a lot less fun..

For me, I still think it was an upside. I still plan to do some basic restoration to that car, and having the parts available will be nice. But I do not go to the bus only events anymore. I can't deal with the pretentious wanna be collectors. And I miss the cars with the hosiery leg shifters, and the license plate side wind scoops, and the carved thatch seats..

Of course, in the mean time, I will still make my own door cards out of door skin, and I will still use my bus to haul stuff, and shock the guys at the yard when I tell them to drive that forklift right up to the side and put the 302 in it.. After all, it's not restored yet. It's still a car meant to be used, at least to me..

[Alvin]

too often this site and those on it are in a position to move the value needle more than a little bit, but we don't

Can you be more specific?

[theunz]

Just received my April issue of Hemmings Sports & Exotic Car and they have several articles about old Japanese cars. One is about the 510 and another is about Datsun Historian Dan Banks. Although Mr. Banks does not mention the roadster ( he is a Z-Car enthusiast) he talks about Datsuns early history in the US. Coincidentally he sees a future appreciation of early Japanese cars for some of the same reasons I mentioned earlier. There is also an article about the Toyota 2000GT and the Mazda Cosmo. If you are unfamiliar with this Magazine I highly recommend it. Mike

[datsun1500]

Dan is a great guy. He loves the Roadsters, but is more into Z cars. He has a personal relationship with Mr K. He owns a 1930? Datsun fire truck. After some research it was discovered that it is the 1st truck Datsun built, Vin #1. Not the first fire truck Datsun built, the first truck.

[pebbles]

It's funny, with my VW bus we went thru a huge price jump a few years back.. They have their own version of the '67.5 2 liter, it's the early 60s 23 window... They were worth realistically about $60-70k. And one sold at auction for $198k plus fees.

There's a huge upside. Every part that is now unobtanium, that you currently have to have made or go find a parts car to steal the piece from, all of it becomes available.. Literally within weeks, there was a guy in Texas who started making factory quality sheet metal. The plastics that had not been made because there was not enough market for them were suddenly available.. Need a factory interior kit? Factory door cards and front kick panel? Looking for a seat frame? Hey, we make those now! Because suddenly, every car that had a tree growing thru it was ready to be restored..

The down side was the segment that wanted to buy the cars and restore them and sell them to the investor crowd grew immensely, and the 'my car is more collectable than your car' crowd, and the 'don't you dare modify your car, or do something stupid and modern like putting a 12 volt system in it' crowd got a lot more vocal. It made going to a lot of the events a lot less fun..

For me, I still think it was an upside. I still plan to do some basic restoration to that car, and having the parts available will be nice. But I do not go to the bus only events anymore. I can't deal with the pretentious wanna be collectors. And I miss the cars with the hosiery leg shifters, and the license plate side wind scoops, and the carved thatch seats..

Of course, in the mean time, I will still make my own door cards out of door skin, and I will still use my bus to haul stuff, and shock the guys at the yard when I tell them to drive that forklift right up to the side and put the 302 in it.. After all, it's not restored yet. It's still a car meant to be used, at least to me..

funny that kind of money and they still only want to pay $1000 for paint work,,,,,,

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[dbrick]

Dan is a great guy. He loves the Roadsters, but is more into Z cars. He has a personal relationship with Mr K. He owns a 1930? Datsun fire truck. After some research it was discovered that it is the 1st truck Datsun built, Vin #1. Not the first fire truck Datsun built, the first truck.

Need to get him to The Glen

[RCMike]

funny that kind of money and they still only want to pay $1000 for paint work,,,,,,

You will do that for $1k?!? Where do I drop it off?

[pebbles]

I should have emphasized WANT,,, lol.

[Bob]

Examples? Good question. My point was not to be critical of anyone or anything in particular. I think I could, but I won't.

My point is much less specific, but, I believe, nonetheless valid.

I think, as a group of Datsun Roadster aficionados, we could do more to bring attention to the inherent value of these cars than we do, at all levels -- the best, the great, the good and even the possibly good. I get that there is a need to hold everyone to a high standard when we speak of the best and the great.
I agree with that in terms of standards and maximum value. At the same time, I think we should acknowledge the very limited number of still existing Datsun Roadsters in any condition, and encourage those who have one to bring them back to life. Unfortunately, as a purely economic point, if top dollar for a best Datsun Roadster is $20,000, or even $25,000, who, in their right mind, would spend that or more to restore one.

I think the value of the best should be close to $50,000, and the value of the great around $40,000, and the value of the good around $25,000. Those numbers are equal to the British equivalents, and we think Datsun Roadsters are at least as good, if not better. Don't we?

Ultimately value is set by the buyer. I understand that. But, value can be greatly influenced by those who know the true worth. Buyers will take note of that, over time.

My simple point is that we should be promoting the real value as we see it, much more than arguing against that real value, in hopes of depressing value and getting a "deal."

There are many examples of that, but I am not about to identify them specifically.

I urge everyone to think big picture.

[pebbles]

Unfortunately, as a purely economic point, if top dollar for a best Datsun Roadster is $20,000, or even $25,000, who, in their right mind, would spend that or more to restore one.

I urge everyone to think big picture.

I have been known to be of unsound mind for long periods.

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Love your car Bob, cant wait to see it!!!

[garth]

Unfortunately, as a purely economic point, if top dollar for a best Datsun Roadster is $20,000, or even $25,000, who, in their right mind, would spend that or more to restore one.

I urge everyone to think big picture.

I have been known to be of unsound mind for long periods.

Big picture
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Love your car Bob, cant wait to see it!!!

Absolutely brilliant David!

Hope to exchange unsound roadster thoughts with you at the Matsuri in May.

[FairladySPL]

Bob?
After about a month off, something has stimulated you to revive your train of thought on this topic.

It feels like a loop to me, not moving toward agreement or resolution. Your points of view are already among the elements in the big picture that you suggest we try to see. Many, if not all of your points have been confronted, some discussion response was requested, and you failed to participate. Now it feels repetitive, or, a loop.

Some of us disagree with you as we consider that big picture. This does not mean you are wrong, or that your point is too simple. It suggests their priorities are different than yours. What they deem important is different than what you assign to yourself.

When it comes to restoration expenditure, I've gladly spent far more than my 311 is worth, because I'm not planning on flipping it for revenue. Not only am I in my right mind on this point, but I agree with those who assert that they "don't care" what their Roadster is worth.

This is because, if they're like myself, I'm in it for the enjoyment of the car, not the monetary return these cars may or may never represent.

I have enjoyed seeing the $50,000 auction sale recently of one specific example of 311. But the value of that affirmation is completely lost on me if expressed in units of money. I really don't care.

Please take these alternative viewpoints into consideration, accept them as being just as valid as your own, and perhaps it won't trouble you as much.

-----

Examples? Good question. My point was not to be critical of anyone or anything in particular. I think I could, but I won't.

My point is much less specific, but, I believe, nonetheless valid.

I think, as a group of Datsun Roadster aficionados, we could do more to bring attention to the inherent value of these cars than we do, at all levels -- the best, the great, the good and even the possibly good. I get that there is a need to hold everyone to a high standard when we speak of the best and the great.
I agree with that in terms of standards and maximum value. At the same time, I think we should acknowledge the very limited number of still existing Datsun Roadsters in any condition, and encourage those who have one to bring them back to life. Unfortunately, as a purely economic point, if top dollar for a best Datsun Roadster is $20,000, or even $25,000, who, in their right mind, would spend that or more to restore one.

I think the value of the best should be close to $50,000, and the value of the great around $40,000, and the value of the good around $25,000. Those numbers are equal to the British equivalents, and we think Datsun Roadsters are at least as good, if not better. Don't we?

Ultimately value is set by the buyer. I understand that. But, value can be greatly influenced by those who know the true worth. Buyers will take note of that, over time.

My simple point is that we should be promoting the real value as we see it, much more than arguing against that real value, in hopes of depressing value and getting a "deal."

There are many examples of that, but I am not about to identify them specifically.

I urge everyone to think big picture.