Datsun Roadster Forum-311s.org

Alvin,

Don't forget about the NX2000, S13. I believe the reason the ka was sold over here is that it made the car into a price point against the competition. Plus KA's had a history and could easily (cheaply) be sourced from the pickup line and they can (and did) run the drivetrain setup in multiple chassis...so it comes down the almighty buck.

Alexi

I wasn't referring to citations from the police, but the annoying inconvenience of having an ambulance chasing trial lawyer decide to set his sights on the sporty little car with the go fast parts. They can and do have fun with that stuff.

I have to agree with Sid, never under-estimate what a sleazy lawyer will do.

BUT, there are also very good defense lawyers that will bring an expert witness in to say what caused the accident. If a weld failed and the car fell apart and impaled someone, they would say it. If the car crashed into someone totally unrelated to any work done to the car, the right factor is blamed.

Also, saying one engine swap is less likely to bring attention than another is ridiculous. If you make any change to a vehicle, it is going to get attention. More HP is a gimme, any lawyer will say that the increased HP caused the driver to lose control or some reckless thing. Hell, even if the HP is reduced they would say that the car did not have enough HP to operate in a safe manner.

Over hyping frame modification "(torching out a major chunk of the crossmember that supports the suspension)" is going too far. You make it sound like the front crossmember cut is akin to removing the lower A-arm or something. Yes, a portion of the front crossmember is removed, but the suspension mounts far from this point and the suspension has no idea it’s distant neighbor has been altered. I will also guarantee you that the crossmember on my car is stronger, stiffer and will have more fatigue endurance than the original.

Don't try to push the frame cutting issue in every topic, it clouds all of the other great information you do have and provide.

Sorry to jump on the post, but I really feel it was going too far. TR

I am going to agree with TR, lawyers do what they have to do...now off that.

Sid,

Have you ever seen a front member cut? I can tell you I have done 2 and the portion that gets cut away is more cosmetic and adds little rigidity to the frame. Plus when it gets pocketed with 3/16 plat it is actually stronger than the original. The original metal is so thin you can bend it with your fingers. Plus there is the main support that does not get touched inside what you see as the crossmember.

Alexi

You know, you could be right. An engineered piece that was originally designed to hold back the stresses of an unbridled 1000cc motor that barely wheezed out enough horsepower to get the buggy it was bolted into up to current highway speeds is actually improved by hacking a part of it away and welding in boiler plate. Who needs to get an engineering degree - Nissan wasted untold dollars engineering a piece when a few scraps of iron would have worked fine.

Yes, I have seen a cut crossmember. I have cut a few frames for various things. Thin metal that is engineered properly can support a lot more than it would appear to. That is why such nice thin aluminum can support tons floating through the air.

As I stated a number of times, it is your car, swap in what you want. I still firmly believe that the torsional strength of the crossmember is compromised by the carefully engineered modification of gently removing an offending piece and replacing it with the custom designed reinforcement that you designed. The annealing of the metal surrounding the welds certainly strengthens the part as well. Heck, I know of a Roadster that had the entire center section of that crossmember removed. They nicely welded on caps to the remaining stubs, so I am sure it was just as safe.

With regards to no expressing my opinion, well, I have always maintained that everyone has a right to my opinion.

As an aside, I have re-read all the posts with an open mind regarding the swaps as I am planning a swap of my own. I have a frame from a 68 1600 that currently has mounts for a Z20 in the driveway and am planning some custom frame mounts for it - but I will not cut anything out of the frame to do it. I have read all of the pros and cons of the KA and the SR, and given the extensive work to install it, the negligible improvement in performance over the other available documented swaps and the lack of parts support, I just don't get the SR. The KA makes a LOT more sense to me.

I have other plans though - and none of them involve the hot wrench...

If you feel that my position regarding the compromising of strength of the crossmember is wrong, you are welcome to skip my posts.

DELETED

Hello everyone still reading…

Sid – I can’t even comment on your first paragraph, you introduce so many left field ideas…

Don’t fool yourself about the frame design, this frame is not designed for performance, structural integrity, etc. It was designed solely for mass production. It is put together well, but don’t compare it to an aircraft…

Torsional strength of the front crossmember? The only time that piece is going to see a torsional load is during an accident. There will be loads and bending, but these are off axis to the location of the cut and do not load the area in question. Braking loads are probably the biggest input. Anyways, if the mods were not sufficient, I would have broken the car by now!

I’ll guarantee you that the frame material is already in an annealed condition. It is some of the weakest, cheapest low carbon stuff I have ever seen from that era.

And thanks for comparing a notch to complete removal of the crossmember, I am not sure what field that is coming from, maybe the hotdog cart?

As for your opinion, I (and probably others) value it on this forum, you have great knowledge of the cars and history. I enjoy seeing it. I am simply suggesting to give the frame cutting a rest. If you want to stand on the proverbial street corner with a bull horn and yell, “Frame cutting is the end of the world�, go for it. I would just like you to know that it isn’t…

I think red paint makes cars susceptible to rust, do what you want, but I think it is wrong.

And as the KA makes more sense to you, I am not surprised. A lot of people choose it for all of the discussed reasons. I and others chose something else for other reasons…I am curious, what engine are you planning on installing in the 68? Do I remember from previous posts something about a V8?

Like I said in my opening paragraph, you may be right. Your design may be stronger than what Nissan designed. I am done with it at this point. We will have to agree to disagree. I could elaborate on my points, but they would fall on blind eyes and would only serve to give my fingers exercise.

Alvin,

I am sure that the SR20 swapped cars are fast. I have not questioned that at all. Anytime you make changes to increase the power to weight ratio, things get better. I have driven 2000 lb cars that had (conservatively) 350hp and an unGodly amount of torque. I could barely get them rolling without spinning the wide gumballs on the back. Herds of fun they were! That having been said, I sincerely doubt that I will ever drive an SR20 powered car. There is a slim chance at the other swaps.

Out of curiousity, what engine to the Japanese put in their Roadsters? I recall that Rose Auto built an insane looking roadster with HUGE Porsche type flares. Any idea what engines they swap in since they have access to the stuff that a lot of folks over here salivate over?

DELETED

Hell Sid, thanks for calling me blind. You are really working on being a charming person.

I retract my last statement about respecting your opinion.

I would like to see your elaborated points, but before you waste your time on my "blind eyes", please elaborate on what technical knowledge you have as to structural design.

Given that these "blind eyes" have years of education in this area and work professionally in a similar area 5 days a week...

As for the roadsters in Japan, I don't know, but given the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence (water-in this case), they probably install a Ford four cylinder or something and call it an exclusive "ADM" motor! TR

Too funny, Alvin jumped in while I was typing and both of us made reference to a Ford swap! Maybe I'll have to swap a Ford in just to piss myself off! TR

TR,

I did not call you blind. Since the words on the forum are written, it would sound pretty stupid to say that they would fall on deaf ears. I put that they would fall on blind eyes suggesting that no matter what I wrote, you would negate it or dismiss it. As I indicated, we will have to agree to disagree.

Now regarding the respecting of my opinion, that is up to you. As I said in two previous posts [quote]you may be right. Your design may be stronger than what Nissan designed.[/quote]

Alvin,

Bring it on man! I have always thought you have a fantastic looking car, and I would love to see it in person! I am sure that I would love to ride in it, but I sincerely doubt that you will convert me to wanting an SR20!!

I remember that B. That is a good thing to do with it! He probably got tired of oil slobbering out of it all the time.

Blind, deaf, doesn't matter.

I have looked and listened to what you wrote. I have not dismissed or negated anything you have wrote that is based on sound ground, just tried to put forward facts. I guess I shouldn't care so much about getting the truth out there. I always want people to understand things based on engineering and not based on fear or hype.

I'll end with "we can agree to disagree" and if anyone wants to know about frame modifications, please ask. Don't be afraid of the unsuported statements that fly about.

In the Japanese Roadster group it is "tabo" to modify the car from non nissan stock. Ask Herb Petty, he flys out twice a year to meet with them. All stock but even the 1600's run solex's.

Alexi

Sid,
I support you. I agree with you, I doubt anyone will "sell" me on a SR or KA swap (unless its to get the KA out of a 240SX/S13,14,or 15 Silvia and put the SR back in it where it should be) TR does have some good points, but your counterpoints are valid. Personially, I'm not going to touch this one, everyone knows my standpoint, so I don't need to open Pandora's Box (again). Its Rauls car, he can do what he wants. I think it would be ashame to see a modern engine in any of his cars, the blue 67.5 2000 is the car I wish mine could be, his sidepipe monster is cool because it has sidepipes, and the white 67.5 1600 is a beautiful car. The wrong hand drive 1500 is far to uncommon/rare to mess with. Honestly, I wish I had any one of his cars, and I would leave them just the way they are (well I might put a set of 40 Phhs on the white 1600, but thats beside the point. )

Enough said.....
Will