Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:11 pm
Wow! The mad fabrication skills of people here always amazes me.
First start:
[youtube][/youtube]
Needs timing, carbs adjusted, etc -
Michael
Datsun Roadster Forum-311s.org
The Resource For All Things Datsun Roadster S211/SPL212/310/311 Datsun Sports Roadster 1959-April 1970 circa 40,000 produced
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Roadster L6
Page 3 of 4
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:31 am
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 5:39 am
Congratulations! Fired right up and sounds good!
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 3:11 am
Didn't make it to any of the roadster events I was hoping to this summer, but little by little....
Have been too busy with work to get much accomplished, but have been chipping away at getting the glass in the doors, and looking for my lock retainers, last seen about a year ago. Reset the butterflies on the carbs for a better fit, and worked on the throttle linkage to get it working smoother.
Got the emergency brake hooked up, here is an underneath pic -these are old tires (15+years), which I'll replace before driving too far, and get some new wheels. Behind the panhard bar, you can see the angled front of the gas tank, which kicks air up to the radiator and fans in the trunk. I have a plan for a front splitter that mounts to the front bumper supports and the front of the tranny, which I think will help w/ airflow (and keep the front end from getting light at speed).
I the thinned throttle shaft at the butterfly (cutting half of it off, and sanding off some of the other), and rounded the leading edges of the piston. I also put the richer SM needles in.
On my list is pulling it out and washing it, gets a little dusty in the woodshop
Could buff out the clear coat too, nice and hard by now.
Looking for, but not finding, a reasonably nice pair of shiny wiper arms and blades.
I have been considering what to do for front and rear grills for some time now, after looking at various woven wire mesh, etc and flirted with the idea of drawing parts up and having them plasma, water or cnc cut, but most of those options aren't "sort of similar" to the stock roadster grills. So latest idea involves rolling gentle curves into some 1/4 - 5/16 round stainless rod, but need to finish the interior first.
Door panels. They look like sturdy chipboard, the lady at the upholstery supply assured me that they were water resistant. Definitely a little harder to cut than chipboard, I used a jig saw and band saw, drilled the holes with a forstner bit, and punched the small holes with a leather punch.
They will have the diamond pattern on top, and smooth-pocket along the bottom. Found some nice little chrome toggle latches at Tandy for the pocket, considering whether to have a flap/closure or not.
Also thinking about what to do for front and rear grills for some time now, after looking at various woven wire mesh, etc and flirted with the idea of drawing parts up and having them plasma, water or cnc cut, but most of those options aren't "sort of similar" to the stock roadster grills. So latest idea involves rolling gentle curves into some 1/4 - 5/16 round stainless rod, but need to finish the interior first.
[youtube][/youtube]
(the air/fuel gauge doesn't flicker, that is a video framerate artifact)
I have not got the tach to work yet, which is a mystery, as I had it working with a 280z electronic distributor. I think third time will be a charm, just need to find time to do it when I have time to recover from craning my neck under the dash. Need to hook up the speedo while I am there.
[youtube][/youtube]
It's loud mainly because its in the shop, outside it is fairly mellow ((until you step on it).
I have been chasing a variety of coolant drips (lots of plumbing, and a 25lb pressure cap doesn't help) - but think I have about got them. The good news is that the fans kick on when they should, and it holds temp sitting and idling, which my shop neighbor assures me means it will be cool going down the road.
At some point there is the question of a top to deal with.
So I am not rolling down the road yet, but painfully inching closer.
Michael
Have been too busy with work to get much accomplished, but have been chipping away at getting the glass in the doors, and looking for my lock retainers, last seen about a year ago. Reset the butterflies on the carbs for a better fit, and worked on the throttle linkage to get it working smoother.
Got the emergency brake hooked up, here is an underneath pic -these are old tires (15+years), which I'll replace before driving too far, and get some new wheels. Behind the panhard bar, you can see the angled front of the gas tank, which kicks air up to the radiator and fans in the trunk. I have a plan for a front splitter that mounts to the front bumper supports and the front of the tranny, which I think will help w/ airflow (and keep the front end from getting light at speed).
I the thinned throttle shaft at the butterfly (cutting half of it off, and sanding off some of the other), and rounded the leading edges of the piston. I also put the richer SM needles in.
On my list is pulling it out and washing it, gets a little dusty in the woodshop
Could buff out the clear coat too, nice and hard by now. Looking for, but not finding, a reasonably nice pair of shiny wiper arms and blades.
I have been considering what to do for front and rear grills for some time now, after looking at various woven wire mesh, etc and flirted with the idea of drawing parts up and having them plasma, water or cnc cut, but most of those options aren't "sort of similar" to the stock roadster grills. So latest idea involves rolling gentle curves into some 1/4 - 5/16 round stainless rod, but need to finish the interior first.
Door panels. They look like sturdy chipboard, the lady at the upholstery supply assured me that they were water resistant. Definitely a little harder to cut than chipboard, I used a jig saw and band saw, drilled the holes with a forstner bit, and punched the small holes with a leather punch.
They will have the diamond pattern on top, and smooth-pocket along the bottom. Found some nice little chrome toggle latches at Tandy for the pocket, considering whether to have a flap/closure or not.
Also thinking about what to do for front and rear grills for some time now, after looking at various woven wire mesh, etc and flirted with the idea of drawing parts up and having them plasma, water or cnc cut, but most of those options aren't "sort of similar" to the stock roadster grills. So latest idea involves rolling gentle curves into some 1/4 - 5/16 round stainless rod, but need to finish the interior first.
[youtube][/youtube]
(the air/fuel gauge doesn't flicker, that is a video framerate artifact)
I have not got the tach to work yet, which is a mystery, as I had it working with a 280z electronic distributor. I think third time will be a charm, just need to find time to do it when I have time to recover from craning my neck under the dash. Need to hook up the speedo while I am there.
[youtube][/youtube]
It's loud mainly because its in the shop, outside it is fairly mellow ((until you step on it).
I have been chasing a variety of coolant drips (lots of plumbing, and a 25lb pressure cap doesn't help) - but think I have about got them. The good news is that the fans kick on when they should, and it holds temp sitting and idling, which my shop neighbor assures me means it will be cool going down the road.
At some point there is the question of a top to deal with.
So I am not rolling down the road yet, but painfully inching closer.
Michael
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:31 am
Great idea on thinning the shafts for better airflow! Bet that will wake it up.
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:54 am
mlwebb wrote:Update time.
Despite the cold shop, have gotten some stuff done - mostly jumping around and not getting any one area finished.
There are indeed fiddlely bits that jump out when you open up the column switch, do so only where you can find little things. I got it cleaned up, replaced some crunchy wires, and put it back together quickly, so as not to forget how it went together (:
I had the splined bit, and didn't find a steering wheel adapter I liked, so made one out of a couple donuts of 1/4" aluminum, welded together. Will show pics of it and the turn signal when I get them installed, after the dash goes in for the last time.
The dash top I made by putting some plastic wrap on the metal dash top, and some cardboard on the edge, and laid a few layers of fiberglass and epoxy on it. Then a few coats of body filler, sanding, and a layer of 1/8" neoprene foam.
I tried covering it with some marine vinyl in espresso brown, but was not happy with how it laid down, so went with my plan b, some Allsport stretch vinyl in black, with brown top stitching.
The dash wiring harness is mostly done, the Speedhut gauges wired, and just got some led indicator and lights for the speedo and tach, which I had redone years ago when I pulled all the dash dial faces, painted them body color, redrawing the faces, which I had a local T-shirt shop silkscreen. So the speedo is original, the tach from a 260z, and the remaining guages new. (oil temp, oil press, water temp, fuel, voltage from Speedhut, plus an Innovate dual air/fuel guage, one for the front carb, one for the back).
Installed its neater than looks here, I really like the Techflex - easy and looks nice.
Just a quick look, it has to come back out to get the lower console front wired (ignition and all switches). The plywood is temporary, once wired I'll replace it with some black Paperstone - if ambitious I'll silkscreen some lables on it.
DIY Upholstery anyone?
The portable walking foot machine I had borrowed was not up to the task, so after much research, I bought a good one. It's a Consew p1255rb, a new version of their 255rb. Its a vertical axis, top loading bobbin with a 3/4 hp servo motor under the table. I haven't tried sewing 1/4" plywood with it, but hear that it will. I liked the fact that it had an oil pan and oil pump (:
The seat foam is shaped, or at least close. Seat heaters installed. I took one seat home and tested it through a few football and basketball games, and think it will comfortable on long drives.
I got a hide from the Leatherhidestore, called Restoration Distress Wicker. It's a top grain, analine dyed with a soft, slightly waxy feel, 39sq ft. Since I need two of every piece, first step was cutting it in half.
Then lay out the patterns. Accuracy is a good thing here, a constant 3/8 seam allowance and good patterns with reference marks will help when sewing.
My mother taught me to sew when I was young, and I've done a little upholstery here and there. But this is a little ambitious. I did a few trial pieces in vinyl to get the feel of it.
I am still unsure how to pattern the side pieces, so I started on the seat bottom and backs. First job was to cut out the leather, and a matching piece of 1/2" sew foam. The sew foam has a light mesh scrim on the back, I spray glued a piece of light denim to it for a little more strength. I am using bonded polyester thread, for strength and uv resistance. size 92 for hems, and 138 bobbin, and a thicker top stitch. (a size 15 in a different system, maybe 160 equivalant, and a 135/16 #22 chisel point leather needle. The various thread and needle systems are a bit mind boggling). After topstitching, I pulled the top thread through and tied it off in the back.
Michael
wow nice wood on dash ! I'm looking into doing something with mine . I doubt it'll look like that though
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 4:54 am
mlwebb wrote:Update time.
Despite the cold shop, have gotten some stuff done - mostly jumping around and not getting any one area finished.
There are indeed fiddlely bits that jump out when you open up the column switch, do so only where you can find little things. I got it cleaned up, replaced some crunchy wires, and put it back together quickly, so as not to forget how it went together (:
I had the splined bit, and didn't find a steering wheel adapter I liked, so made one out of a couple donuts of 1/4" aluminum, welded together. Will show pics of it and the turn signal when I get them installed, after the dash goes in for the last time.
The dash top I made by putting some plastic wrap on the metal dash top, and some cardboard on the edge, and laid a few layers of fiberglass and epoxy on it. Then a few coats of body filler, sanding, and a layer of 1/8" neoprene foam.
I tried covering it with some marine vinyl in espresso brown, but was not happy with how it laid down, so went with my plan b, some Allsport stretch vinyl in black, with brown top stitching.
The dash wiring harness is mostly done, the Speedhut gauges wired, and just got some led indicator and lights for the speedo and tach, which I had redone years ago when I pulled all the dash dial faces, painted them body color, redrawing the faces, which I had a local T-shirt shop silkscreen. So the speedo is original, the tach from a 260z, and the remaining guages new. (oil temp, oil press, water temp, fuel, voltage from Speedhut, plus an Innovate dual air/fuel guage, one for the front carb, one for the back).
Installed its neater than looks here, I really like the Techflex - easy and looks nice.
Just a quick look, it has to come back out to get the lower console front wired (ignition and all switches). The plywood is temporary, once wired I'll replace it with some black Paperstone - if ambitious I'll silkscreen some lables on it.
DIY Upholstery anyone?
The portable walking foot machine I had borrowed was not up to the task, so after much research, I bought a good one. It's a Consew p1255rb, a new version of their 255rb. Its a vertical axis, top loading bobbin with a 3/4 hp servo motor under the table. I haven't tried sewing 1/4" plywood with it, but hear that it will. I liked the fact that it had an oil pan and oil pump (:
The seat foam is shaped, or at least close. Seat heaters installed. I took one seat home and tested it through a few football and basketball games, and think it will comfortable on long drives.
I got a hide from the Leatherhidestore, called Restoration Distress Wicker. It's a top grain, analine dyed with a soft, slightly waxy feel, 39sq ft. Since I need two of every piece, first step was cutting it in half.
Then lay out the patterns. Accuracy is a good thing here, a constant 3/8 seam allowance and good patterns with reference marks will help when sewing.
My mother taught me to sew when I was young, and I've done a little upholstery here and there. But this is a little ambitious. I did a few trial pieces in vinyl to get the feel of it.
I am still unsure how to pattern the side pieces, so I started on the seat bottom and backs. First job was to cut out the leather, and a matching piece of 1/2" sew foam. The sew foam has a light mesh scrim on the back, I spray glued a piece of light denim to it for a little more strength. I am using bonded polyester thread, for strength and uv resistance. size 92 for hems, and 138 bobbin, and a thicker top stitch. (a size 15 in a different system, maybe 160 equivalant, and a 135/16 #22 chisel point leather needle. The various thread and needle systems are a bit mind boggling). After topstitching, I pulled the top thread through and tied it off in the back.
Michael
wow nice wood on dash ! I'm looking into doing something with mine . I doubt it'll look like that though
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:24 am
More of too busy, but have drained the radiator and put my heater core in, time to get some anti-freeze in there.
Have been contemplating tires and wheels. Ideally, I would like two sets - a comfortable road trip set, and a twisty road autocross set. Years ago, when I did the major bodywork, I spread the back fenders and fender wells to take a larger tire without the flare look - although I am sure the difference would be noticeable if it was parked next to another roadster.
Here is a 16x9, 0 offset wheel on the rear (car on jack stands). I have about an inch to the inner fender side, and leaf spring, and 3/4-1 inch to the wheel well lip, I think a 245 would fit, at least a 15" dia, maybe a 16. With the panhard bar, there shouldn't be much side sway to consider.
The front fenders are stock, although I did move the body back a half inch on the frame, because I thought it centered the wheel wells on the wheels better (and it gave me a half inch in the back of the engine bay that I found useful). Wheels available in bolt pattern and offset fall into two groups - either 7" front, 8" rear, (195/205 front, 225 rear) or 8" front, 9" rear (205/225 front, 245 rear). And either 15 or 16. Available 7/8 pairs seem mostly of the Panasport type (VTO, Rota RB, etc), 8/9 staggered sets have more variety, as they fit Z's and Celica's, tires to fit the wider wheels are all 40 or 45 profile and sticky (everybody is making SUV sized tires these days). A third option is run the same size all around, and add a spacer in the rear (have longer studs). If I had my choice, I think a 50 profile tire is low enough, not sure how the ride of the 40 or 45 series are on a mostly vintage suspension. Smaller diameter tires will also lower it a bit, and it is a bit low already (ground clearance).
The difference in tire diameter, 15 to 16 wheels in similar tires is an inch, possibly inch and a half - current tires are 24", low profile 15's 22.75-23 - 16's 24-25". So now I am curious about the effect of tire diameter on handling and road feel - leaning towards 15's, although I have seen some nice looking roadsters with 16's, not sure they would fit my (lowered) car up front - 24" diameter is snug, still need to look carefully at the front, I am guessing an 8" wheel would both stick out some, and possibly restrict the turning radius a bit, and have to be a smaller diameter (22.5 to 23) tire - a slightly stretched 205 possibly a 225.
So I am back to the desire for two sets, and budget for one. Meanwhile I have plenty of other stuff to do, like finish the upholstery, find some wipers, and consider my top options. Need less considering, more doing
Michael
Have been contemplating tires and wheels. Ideally, I would like two sets - a comfortable road trip set, and a twisty road autocross set. Years ago, when I did the major bodywork, I spread the back fenders and fender wells to take a larger tire without the flare look - although I am sure the difference would be noticeable if it was parked next to another roadster.
Here is a 16x9, 0 offset wheel on the rear (car on jack stands). I have about an inch to the inner fender side, and leaf spring, and 3/4-1 inch to the wheel well lip, I think a 245 would fit, at least a 15" dia, maybe a 16. With the panhard bar, there shouldn't be much side sway to consider.
The front fenders are stock, although I did move the body back a half inch on the frame, because I thought it centered the wheel wells on the wheels better (and it gave me a half inch in the back of the engine bay that I found useful). Wheels available in bolt pattern and offset fall into two groups - either 7" front, 8" rear, (195/205 front, 225 rear) or 8" front, 9" rear (205/225 front, 245 rear). And either 15 or 16. Available 7/8 pairs seem mostly of the Panasport type (VTO, Rota RB, etc), 8/9 staggered sets have more variety, as they fit Z's and Celica's, tires to fit the wider wheels are all 40 or 45 profile and sticky (everybody is making SUV sized tires these days). A third option is run the same size all around, and add a spacer in the rear (have longer studs). If I had my choice, I think a 50 profile tire is low enough, not sure how the ride of the 40 or 45 series are on a mostly vintage suspension. Smaller diameter tires will also lower it a bit, and it is a bit low already (ground clearance).
The difference in tire diameter, 15 to 16 wheels in similar tires is an inch, possibly inch and a half - current tires are 24", low profile 15's 22.75-23 - 16's 24-25". So now I am curious about the effect of tire diameter on handling and road feel - leaning towards 15's, although I have seen some nice looking roadsters with 16's, not sure they would fit my (lowered) car up front - 24" diameter is snug, still need to look carefully at the front, I am guessing an 8" wheel would both stick out some, and possibly restrict the turning radius a bit, and have to be a smaller diameter (22.5 to 23) tire - a slightly stretched 205 possibly a 225.
So I am back to the desire for two sets, and budget for one. Meanwhile I have plenty of other stuff to do, like finish the upholstery, find some wipers, and consider my top options. Need less considering, more doing
Michael
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:52 pm
Got some grip (:
Just got the tires, haven't got time to try the fronts. The rears look like they will work fine with a few minor adjustments (like stealing a 1/4 inch from the drivers side and giving it to the passenger side). They are close, I've got about a half inch on the inside - don't expect much side to side movement, should be ok, further testing required. The rears are a little wider tread than the 245/40 BFG Rivals.
Will post some more pics when I get the fronts on, and it out in the parking lot for a side view. The wheels are Rota Kensei's, 8 & 9 inch, both 0 offset. The tires are Toyo R888R's, 225/50/15 and 235/50/15, 24 less a hair, and 24 1/8 in diameter.
Also back to working on the upholstery, hope to get the door panels done this weekend.
Michael
Just got the tires, haven't got time to try the fronts. The rears look like they will work fine with a few minor adjustments (like stealing a 1/4 inch from the drivers side and giving it to the passenger side). They are close, I've got about a half inch on the inside - don't expect much side to side movement, should be ok, further testing required. The rears are a little wider tread than the 245/40 BFG Rivals.
Will post some more pics when I get the fronts on, and it out in the parking lot for a side view. The wheels are Rota Kensei's, 8 & 9 inch, both 0 offset. The tires are Toyo R888R's, 225/50/15 and 235/50/15, 24 less a hair, and 24 1/8 in diameter.
Also back to working on the upholstery, hope to get the door panels done this weekend.
Michael
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 1:11 pm
Michael, I would love to see more pics of the rear locating bar you have set up when you have some time. I have no torque reaction bar anymore and have considered something like what I see on yours... is that is primary function? I see you also have the flex form rear springs as do I. Thanks!
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:58 pm
Greg - here are a couple more pics of the center torque arm, and in the second pic you can see the panhard bar (shiny) right behind the diff. The only other pics of it I have are on page one -it is a little hard to photograph now, without a lift. It has one more lower height adjustment, and a couple higher.
Keep in mind that both are as yet untried and untested. I did consider the forces involved (and while not a mechanical engineer, I have done a fair bit of structural engineering), and feel confident in them, but appropriate at your own risk (:
The panhard bar set up is a bit lighter built than you often see, but the roadster is not a 3500 lb car either. We will see but I think it will work short of hitting a curb very hard, and keep any side to side leaf spring sway to a minimum.
The torque arm I saw the basic idea on some kit for a mustang or camaro, I forget. The biscuit bar part of it is from Speedway - I replaced the 11" tube it came with, with a longer one. Mounting the back end below the diff, and roughly below the axle centerline gives it some leverage, and I figured having it as long as possible (and longer than the axle to front spring mount) gave it the best chance of letting the axle move up and down freely. The biscuit bar part gives it a little adjustable give - and I think minimizes any chance of it and the driveline not getting along. I was messing with the frame crossing at the time, so welded in a front mount - I'm sure a bolted on version would work too. The differential mount I didn't want to weld - so jerry rigged a bolt on version that I trust will stay put and not put too much stress on the fairly small differential bolts. My bracket makes use of a existing round depression in the bottom of the front of the differential mated to a pin on my bracket, and held in place by the U-bolt. I drilled a hole in the top front fin on the differential and threaded the U-bolt through it to keep it in place. I hope this effectively transfers load from the bracket to the diff housing with out stressing anywhere too much.
Michael
Keep in mind that both are as yet untried and untested. I did consider the forces involved (and while not a mechanical engineer, I have done a fair bit of structural engineering), and feel confident in them, but appropriate at your own risk (:
The panhard bar set up is a bit lighter built than you often see, but the roadster is not a 3500 lb car either. We will see but I think it will work short of hitting a curb very hard, and keep any side to side leaf spring sway to a minimum.
The torque arm I saw the basic idea on some kit for a mustang or camaro, I forget. The biscuit bar part of it is from Speedway - I replaced the 11" tube it came with, with a longer one. Mounting the back end below the diff, and roughly below the axle centerline gives it some leverage, and I figured having it as long as possible (and longer than the axle to front spring mount) gave it the best chance of letting the axle move up and down freely. The biscuit bar part gives it a little adjustable give - and I think minimizes any chance of it and the driveline not getting along. I was messing with the frame crossing at the time, so welded in a front mount - I'm sure a bolted on version would work too. The differential mount I didn't want to weld - so jerry rigged a bolt on version that I trust will stay put and not put too much stress on the fairly small differential bolts. My bracket makes use of a existing round depression in the bottom of the front of the differential mated to a pin on my bracket, and held in place by the U-bolt. I drilled a hole in the top front fin on the differential and threaded the U-bolt through it to keep it in place. I hope this effectively transfers load from the bracket to the diff housing with out stressing anywhere too much.
Michael
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:22 pm
Thank you for the pics and taking the time to write it out! Looks good to me!
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:27 am
Very cool build!! I really like the front brakes!! LOL Thanks!
You said you'd put up more pics of the steering hub you did.....did I miss the pics?
Those seat frames are really sweet!!!!
You said you'd put up more pics of the steering hub you did.....did I miss the pics?
Those seat frames are really sweet!!!!
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:28 pm
Michael, I'm doing the same mods on the SUs as you and wondered if you rounded the piston edge on the front inlet side as well. Your pic shows the rear of carb side rounded.
Re: Roadster L6
Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 5:46 pm
Re piston edge, yes.
I'll find or take a pic of the steering hub.
I'll find or take a pic of the steering hub.