Datsun Roadster Forum-311s.org

The Search.

After the Sebring-It-On died, I realized that I would really like another convertible to toodle around town in, and I immediately-ish decided on a Roadster… the favorite of all the cars my brother has owned.

When I first started the search, the world was less abnormal, and I had a good job.

I worked for a client who had hired me full-time, a nice change of pace. We operated in the Health and Pharmaceutical space. In a nutshell: Drugmakers hired us to conduct studies of their drugs and analyze efficacy in relation to drug-drug interaction, comorbidities, demo/sociographics, and even Payor impact. We then published those non-biased studies in the form of patient data sheets, websites, an online portal for physicians and patients, posters, and books, etc. My job was to make that data look pretty.

So a little dry on the subject matter, but it is actually very interesting and challenging.

As you might imagine, once Covid hit, the entire Pharma world pivoted from managing outsourced studies to finding a vaccine for Covid-19. (Interestingly, one study we did was actually a study for Gilead and Remdesivir (pre-covid and unrelated)). But, all studies were put on immediate hold, the owners shuttered the La Jolla office and consolidated everything in the Colorado office. And unfortunately there just wasn't enough to keep me on. So I'm back to the somewhat less reliable freelance (esp these days).

Rambling… sorry…

The point is, even with two girls in college, I had a little extra scratch for a car, and based on a very brief Roadster consideration about 5 years prior, my thought was: "I'll just find an awesome, turn-key, totally original daily-driver Roadster for $5k, maybe 7 tops. It might take a month, but I'll have that Roadster soon, and will be zipping around all fast and happy, what's left of my hair bristling in the open air. Easy peasy.–

Surprise! – it wasn't quite that easy.

After a short while, I realized that I'm really dumb, or naive might be more generous.

There were little to no Roadsters for sale in Southern California (at least that I could find), and I was soon scouring Craigslist nationwide. I almost flew up to the Pacific Northwest twice, seriously considered buying one sight-unseen in Chicago for $9k. This was all an eye opener. The cost had shot up, the condition had gone down.

I had more or less given up and was seriously considering a new Miata… but then a Roadster finally came up, and it was only a few miles from here. I think he was asking 9k, but it was more of a project than I was ready for. And there were a lot of little red flags… it took some effort to even get it started, super fast idle, steering was pretty wonky, no passenger seat, other parts missing, lots of "Oh, I'll fix that after you buy it.–… okay, so there were lots of BIG red flags. But I drove that car, and even though I didn't buy it, I loved it for what it was...

I was now 100% committed to finding a Roadster.

Miata, Shmiata.

And then fate stepped up to the plate... shortly after committing, a Roadster popped up in a Northern CA Craigslist ad. (I live in San Diego, my siblings still live up North).

The ad had this photo:
...and said something like "Datsun Roadster. Barn Find. Original Owner. $650–

Hmmm... this sounds pretty good. Heck, I like Roadsters. I like original owners. I like barns. I really like that price.

So... it's obviously too good to be true.

I called Car Guy Brother anyway, told him about the ad and that I had Googled the location and it looks like "Smalltown" (I forget the name of the town) is pretty close to where he lives. He confirmed, "Yup, that's only about 20 minutes from me. I'm on a bike ride right now (he races mountain bikes instead of cars these days), but I'll go check it out after that.

This. Is. Exciting. But it must be a scam, right? $650???

My brother and I both reach out to the seller. Texts, emails, phone calls, smoke signals, carrier pigeons… you name it. No reply. No nothin'. More attempts to reach the seller the next day. Same thing the next day… and the next day… and the next. No reply.

Bummer. Definitely a scam. And even if it was real… that car got snatched up already for sure… but the ad is still up… there's a torture in not knowing.

Shoot. I'll just cry myself to sleep, move on and keep on the hunt.

The Find!

August 17 was a good day.

I had given up hope on the Barn Find, and following a period of deep mourning, I decided life had to move on.

So I went fishing.

One of my greatest passions is fly fishing, in particular, sight-fishing on the beaches of San Diego. Normally I fish for croaker, a really cool, 2-10 pound fish, so-ugly-they're-beautiful, and are very challenging to catch. I'm kind of obsessed with them. But this particular day was different, in addition to a few croaker, there were several large leopard sharks swimming around in the crystal clear shallows. This was very rare where I was fishing.

If you're not familiar with Leopard sharks – 1. They're completely harmless to humans, 2. They are exceptionally beautiful. 3. They do this cool thing where they come into the shallows for a brief time during the summer. But that normally occurs in concentration in a marine sanctuary miles south of where I was. So this was special to see.

Anyway, as I'm down on the beach, futilely trying to fool a shark with a fake crab made of fur, my brother calls me and says "I just heard from the Roadster Guy, I'm going to see it right now.–

"What???!!! It's been almost a week, what in the world happened?–

"Not sure, but I'm on my way right now.–

"What if somethings wrong with it?–

"Doesn't matter.–

"What if it doesn't have an engine?–

"Doesn't matter. They're easy to find.–

"What if it's really, really bad?–

"Look, there's going to have to be a WHOLE lot wrong with it to NOT buy it for $650. I'm buying it, and if you want it you can have it. But, I'm buying it regardless.–

He's smarter than me.

Shortly after that exciting news, I actually hooked and landed one of these leopard sharks!

I'm not overstating it when I say it's truly the fish of a lifetime – at least my lifetime. I've been fishing down there for 25 years and this was the day. It just doesn't happen, especially with a fly rod.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZsZx-E ... e=youtu.be

So, that was cool.

And then it gets even cooler.

Literally about two minutes after releasing the shark, as I'm still shaking from excitement and adrenaline, I get a text from my brother. No words, just a photo of him standing in front of a Roadster shaking a guy's hand exchanging money.
So, yeah, August 17 was a good day. A very, very good day.

Next episode: I meet my car in person.

Awesome! Have fun with the restoration!

Fun stuff Man! Like I said, lives and interests overlap... pretty much the only fishing I've done is fly fishing for trout and salmon. Never saltwater though. What a great day eh?

If the pic of your brother shows him standing in front of the car you purchased, it has a 2000 grill. Not unusual for the grills to get swapped from one model to another. and the PRICE! WOW! How I remember the days of buying running roadsters for practically nothing. Way back when I purchased more than one running roadster for less than $1000. I thought those days were gone forever. When you come visit in Loreto, bring your fishing gear (or not, ive got plenty) and we'll spend some time out on the water. I have a nice boat and several kayaks avaliable for us to use. I was wondering if you were a writer by trade. Your skills were obvious in your early posts. Very intertaining. Looking forward to more stories.

spl310 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:14 am Awesome! Have fun with the restoration!

Thanks spl310! I think I will have fun.

Gregs672000 wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:40 pm Fun stuff Man! Like I said, lives and interests overlap... pretty much the only fishing I've done is fly fishing for trout and salmon. Never saltwater though. What a great day eh?

Hey, thanks Greg! You have a standing invitation. I'd be happy to take you to fish the surf. Some call it the Poor Man's Bonefishing... it really is fun. And at worst it's a nice walk on the beach in San Diego! Hard to beat.

bajaroadster wrote: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:51 pm If the pic of your brother shows him standing in front of the car you purchased, it has a 2000 grill. Not unusual for the grills to get swapped from one model to another. and the PRICE! WOW! How I remember the days of buying running roadsters for practically nothing. Way back when I purchased more than one running roadster for less than $1000. I thought those days were gone forever. When you come visit in Loreto, bring your fishing gear (or not, ive got plenty) and we'll spend some time out on the water. I have a nice boat and several kayaks avaliable for us to use. I was wondering if you were a writer by trade. Your skills were obvious in your early posts. Very intertaining. Looking forward to more stories.

Baja,

Gosh, thank you for the compliments... this is a fun creative outlet. And yes, that's the car with a 2000 grill, shiny headlight scoops, and a shiny sphere thing on the antenna. Those are the only things I can tell may have been changed. Everything else is original. And spoiler alert... unfortunately it does not run... more on all of that in the future. And Loreto is sounding awesome right now, thank you... it's been way too long.

It was really fun to relive the day I was fortunate enough to catch the Leopard Shark of my Lifetime at the exact same time we bought the Car of a Lifetime! 500 miles apart. Weird.

So, since I'm at the point of needing to figure out paint here pretty soon, I came up with this lovely leopard shark paint scheme...

Pretty from far.
Far from pretty.
…and pretty far away.

After procuring the car, my brother trailered it back to his house, which is so cool of him to do… you begin to see how incredibly helpful, involved and what a huge part he plays in this saga.

But the car being at his house actually presents some problems… I'll list them all in order:

1. His house is 531 miles from my house.

Well, actually I guess that's the only problem… but it's a significant one.

However, there are some serious benefits:

1. My sister-in-law is great, my brother is great, and one of my nephews lives nearby and visits when I do and he's great. Being able to spend time with them has been the highlight of the entire project.

2. My brother's house is awesome.

3. They love venison, so I bring some up every trip to be less of a burden. So we eat well.

4. My brother is a car guy and can advise me on what to do, and bail me out when I need help or get frustrated.

5. And a huge bonus - between his garage and his performance suspension shop, he has EVERY tool you might ever need. I didn't event know there was a perfect tool to reach up and undo the rusty nuts that hold on the windshield frame or the bolts to the fender or any other ridiculously hard to reach and break free fastener, etc... but those tools do exist and he has three of each.

Two weeks after we bought the car, I flew up to meet it in person.

And, to be honest, it was a bit of a downer. The single Craigslist photo was creatively cropped, so it mostly disguised the extent of the damage to the front passenger fender, and the general poor condition of the car. It was …˜marketed' as a Barn Find… must have been a crappy barn. The car must have sat ass-end down for years, as all rust is in the rear corner where water would pool.

I never intended to buy a project… and it was instantly evident that I'm very likely in over my head. No, I wasn't expecting a daily driver for $650… but was hoping for something close to running.

Oh, Squirrel!
Side note on the $650. So, my brother shows up at the seller's yard, and the seller's phone is absolutely blowing up and seems frazzled. Keep in mind, he listed an …Original Owner Barn Find Roadster… on Craigslist and is selling it for significantly less than a gazillion dollars… and he had not checked his phone during the week.
My brother was the first one to show up on Saturday morning and was told by the seller that he'd received 187 emails and 40 texts as of about 10 a.m. He was selling the Roadster and a really cool avocado green 70's station wagon for an elderly family friend widow who was moving. She simply wanted them gone, and she'd told him to just sell them for half of what he thought they were worth. He figured $1500 on the Roadster, and through some poor math, the seller's wife had put it on Craigslist for $650, so would my brother pay the $750?… as the guy's phone continues to blow up, my brother quickly hands him the cash.
So, that's how the deal went down. Nice, quirky guy.

Anyway, back to the car assessment. So cool to see it in person, but the fender looks bad. My brother says …No problem.… The general rust looks bad. …No problem.… Interior in sad shape. …No problem.… The really, really bad rusted-through trunk I could drop a toaster through. …Maybe a little bit of a problem.…

A really neat bonus is that we got a stack of paperwork, including the original sales receipt (buyer traded in a Studebaker), payment receipts, original maintenance manual, various maintenance receipts, a Fremont Raceway Pit Pass and race ticket (Time: 1919, Speed: 66.5), various registrations, etc. And virtually every bit of the car was original and intact. The ONLY things the car was missing (that I have been able to tell): no convertible top (only a porthole hardtop), 1600 grill (has a 2000 grill), antenna key, the ashtray cover knob, one fog light delete, and one little top corner clip of the windshield. That's it. Condition issues for sure, but very, very complete and original.

Three curiosities I've realized after learning about the singularities of a 67.5:
1. Shiny headlight scoops. Could easily have been swapped out… but with the addition of:
2. Shiny semi-sphere trim on the antenna, I wonder if the car didn't come with them originally. I've read that sometimes things were used on 67.5 because they were on hand. But, on the other hand the 2000 grill might mean they did the swap. I could maybe see switching the headlight scoops and grill, but it seems weird to do the antenna, too. And they seemingly kept everything. Like the screw for the washer nozzle, the gas cap flap, the doorlock knobs, and a zillion other things in the center console with a bunch of other crap you wouldn't expect anyone to keep. So, shiny chrome is a mystery.

3. The big mystery …“ there is no stamp on the engine block. Nothing. Blank. No …˜R'. The frame is stamped as it should be. Curiously, the Maintenance Manual had the engine number obviously added later - that matches the tag. Anyone ever heard of a motor without any stamp at all? Maybe this is a very early 67.5???

There were also a couple of bonuses: two still-in-the-box rear taillights and a nice hood scoop trim in the trunk.

Fun fact: The original key works every lock including gas cap.

So, first impression: very rough, a ton of work ahead of me, but If I could pick a project, this is the one I'd want. I consider myself very lucky to have this car.

Next up: Will it Run?

Photos in no particular:

Very cool to have all that paperwork.
The block in our 69 jas no numbers stamped either. I was told it was likely a dealer installed replacement short block.
Dan

greydog wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 5:14 pm Very cool to have all that paperwork.
The block in our 69 jas no numbers stamped either. I was told it was likely a dealer installed replacement short block.
Dan

Hey Dan,
Thanks, I love the paperwork, too. I'm attracted to old stuff normally (don't tell my wife I said that)...

But, seriously, the paperwork really adds to the 'second-owner stoke'. It's pretty neat to be able to work with an 'unmolested' car... yet, at the same time...

I feel some pressure and a responsibility

JT68 wrote: “First do no harm.”

... which I'm happy to abide by.

Forgive my newbieness... but why do you think the dealer would install a replacement block? Didn't they just get the cars delivered on a freighter?

Or did the dealers actually build some cars?

Or... does it mean that something went bad, and the dealer had to fix it? If mine was replaced at some point... it had to have been very, very early.

(spoiler alert) When we took the engine out, it looked as if it had been there since Day 1. All the paint lined up with other parts. I don't know how to explain it in words, but it had the matching patina to everything around it, and looked as if it had been unmoved since the middle of 1967.

If something did go bad and required a replacement, what would that have likely been?

Thanks, I like over-thinking stuff.

Since there's a number on the title, I assume the engine was replaced and, since it was not replaced with another stamped engine the dealer guess makes sense.
I'd like some answer from someone who actually knows.
Da

Enjoying your adventure, and the literature makes it even more fun. That badge from the Fremont Touring Club could be pretty rare.

greydog wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 10:57 pm Since there's a number on the title, I assume the engine was replaced and, since it was not replaced with another stamped engine the dealer guess makes sense.
I'd like some answer from someone who actually knows.
Da

...if only there were some really smart Datsun Roadster people nearby...

Gregs672000 wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:47 am Enjoying your adventure, and the literature makes it even more fun. That badge from the Fremont Touring Club could be pretty rare.

Thanks Greg. Yes, the badge is very cool and I'll be sure to make a respectful place for it in the car when the time is right.

Will it even run?

In a word: Hell no it won't.

Sigh.

We tried everything to turn the engine. Bumping it, breaker bar, etc. Not even a hint of budging, so with my brother orchestrating things, we tore into it. This is my first ever intimate look into an engine, and I wouldn't wish the gory horror of the sight on my worst enemy.

Okay, that's a little dramatic, but it sure wasn't pretty.

I didn't know what the inside of an engine was supposed to look like, but was fairly certain it wasn't this:
I think maybe a mouse died in there. Seriously.

I was gutted, but what does my brother say? "No problem."

At this point, I'm convinced he's blind or delusional or both.

"We'll just take it out and you can get it rebuilt.– I felt sooo far over in my head, I was honestly rethinking the entire project.

But, the next morning we set out to remove the engine. I expected it to be a two-day project, but we had it out, in boxes, in the back of his truck in a little over 3 hours. I was blown away, and it gave me a giant boost of confidence to follow through with this thing.

That evening, I saddled up in more familiar territory… in front of the glowing box – my computer. And that's actually the point when I first discovered 311s.org.

Wow, what an eye-opener! Sooo much info, so many different threads, and projects, and when I found some articles on building a stroker, I knew that was what I wanted to do. It's an upgrade for sure, but still retains the original soul of the car. It's a great 'hack'.

So, I researched as much as I could in order to make a solid plan for the next step. Initially, I planned to do as little modification as possible… like keep the original carbs, etc.

And then I read a 311s Classified ad posted by @funkaholik who was selling his carbs because he was building a stroker. Hmmm… I thought you could use the original carbs for a stroker. Shoot, do I have to buy different carbs? Why would this guy be selling his? So, I emailed him.

And I'll say that @funkaholik was so forthcoming and helpful to this newbie it was amazing. He is truly one of the good guys. We still keep in touch, he's done me several favors (I think I owe him about 11 beers), and even though we've never met in person, I kinda consider him a friend. He gave me the contact info for all of 'The Datsun Illuminati', all of which are so helpful it gives me a glimmer of faith in the human race.

The only suspect thing about @funkaholik is that his restoration work is so annoyingly perfect it's obnoxious. But, I'll have a beer with him someday anyway. I'm teasing of course. He's doing such outstanding work. He shows just how good a DIYer can be, and inspires me to "do it right".

Point is, I learned a lot quickly. I first spoke to Dave Premo, who is one of the nicest guys I've ever spoken to, was very helpful, and explained so much. Matter of fact, I was all set to ask if he would consider building my stroker. But, that very night my brother called and told me he had the rebuild all set up. A great surprise, and oh my gosh thanks, but what??!!

As I have mentioned, my brother is a full-on car guy, has a performance suspension business, and used to race all the time.

When I was a young kid, I would go watch him race at Sears Point (now Sonoma Raceway). I have great memories of going bird hunting at Black Point in the morning and driving up the road to watch him race in the afternoon. How the world has changed in the last 35 years, eh?

This is my brother back in the day.
So, I didn't even know it, but one of my brother's very good friends, a different Dave, is a race engine guy and has built my brother's engines for decades. And he has agreed to help us out and build the stroker! What awesome news. This is actually going to happen!

A few months later, I flew up and we took the engine to Dave, and we all (mostly he and my brother) hashed out the details: I am on a budget. I'm not looking for a full-on race engine, more of a quick around town car with the occasional cruise up Palomar Mountain. They talked a whole bunch of dizzying stuff - piston dishing, cam choice, bore, duration, springs, etc. I 100% trust my brother, and Dave has been so nice and helpful… but I really need to learn more, so I can at least pretend I know what I'm talking about at cocktail parties.

Bottom line: it's currently getting build and I'm hoping for it to be finished sometime Q1.

A funnyish side note: My brother lives not far from Mike Kerr, and the morning after we removed the engine and had pretty much decided on a stroker, Mike said he had what we need to build it, so we drove up to meet him. Another amazingly nice guy. Mike had everything I needed, in particular, he had a perfect 2L crank, the hardest part to source as I understand it. But... there was a bit of sticker shock when we added up the price of everything (totally fair by the way) so, I needed to step back and really assess what I could or couldn't afford to spend on this car. So we left with nothing and I went back to the glowing box to do research on my options. After exploring the 2L crank options, and reconsidering the stroker build altogether... I found, literally that night, a 2L crank on eBay for a $75 opening bid! What??!! But there's a catch: the seller was very firm that he would NOT ship. Pickup only. And he was clear across the country in rural New York. How do we work this out?
My brother still has the username 'tricurious' on eBay (that he created literally decades ago as a harmless goof), and apparently, that actually helped us out on this crank deal. My brother proposed a deal for shipping, and after the seller commented that he really liked the username, he said he'd be happy to ship the crank. It seems that no one else bid because of the no-shipping clause, and because the seller liked a username, we won the 2L crank auction for $75!

No excuses now.

Oh, and after learning more, I did get different carbs! I bought freshly rebuilt Mikuni Solex 44s from Simon @2mAn, who is also a super great guy! Just another in this really great Roadster Community.

Total coincidence: @funkaholik had his stroker built by Dave also, so our engines are getting Dyno'd together, and hopefully I can be there in person and chip away at some of the beer debt I owe @funkaholik.

Next up. I will tear the car apart and work on what I can remotely.

Great news. The stars are a.igning for you.
Gonna be a great car.
Dan

Wow, I have not seen anyone go to the effort of removing the engine without removing the transmission - that had to be relatively difficult! I've always pulled both. Great work, great story!

I think you summed it all up with the discovery of "the Datsun illuminati all of which are so helpful it has given me a glimmer of hope for the human race." That's what being a Datsun Roadster owner is about for many of us. There have been many days where this family would do just that after a hard day at work.

This is a fun journey and while I'm sure there will be many more challenging chapters, I'm enjoying your book! "When we last left our hero...."