New guy-over heating Florida

[notoptoy]

Moderator note:
I merged COCOAED's two topics as they are so similar.

[spl310]

I am in Jacksonville, and can help with the head gasket if you can get the car up here. I have the top to the water tower as well. A head gasket is not that difficult. Basic hand tools, some cheap gaskets from the forklift store, some fluids and sealers, and a bit of knowledge of profanity, and it can be done in a few hours.

[tjp]

I meant to add to my post....

If you radiator is beyond cleaning you might also consider replacing what is most likely the stock two core radiator with a three core radiator. I had one made for about $200 and this included adding a fill cap right on the radiator itself. The three core looks stock (except the fill cap) if you are worried about original apprearance.

tim

[Gregs672000]

Glad people are chiming in who are local. The reason I was thinking head gasket was the ol disappearing coolant trick going on. A head gasket was one of the first "major" things I ever did to a car, and as indicated is not that hard, especially on an R motor.

Guess we're beyond waiting on the tower. Did you try the propane torch yet? The metal expands and contracts at different rates, which may help them separate. You are this far, may as well get the rad tested and modified as suggested if needed. It could be a stuck thermo, so that's a cheap fix (!).
Fear not, the car is just testing you to see if you are REALLY committed to being a Roadster owner. Work through her issues and her charms will soon win you over! Trust me, many of us have been where you're at! 27 years later and we're still together.

[cocoaed]

Greg, Thanks for the encouragement, however it was a very discouraging day. Spent all afternoon trying to get that tower off with no luck! Went a bought a propane torch, that didn't work. I've used up almost a whole can of PB Blaster, I keep spraying, beating on it, heating, pulling, pushing, etc.. and no go! I haven't destroyed the tower yet but, this is REALLY FRUSTRATING! I tried the 2 nut trick too, didn't work. All that did was strip the threads on the studs. When the bottom nut tightened up against the top one, it then just stripped the threads in that spot!
I don't know what else to try!??

[cocoaed]

I am in Jacksonville, and can help with the head gasket if you can get the car up here. I have the top to the water tower as well. A head gasket is not that difficult. Basic hand tools, some cheap gaskets from the forklift store, some fluids and sealers, and a bit of knowledge of profanity, and it can be done in a few hours.

Thanks so much for the offer to help with the head gasket. I don't know how I'd get the car to Jacksonville though. I'm about 2.5 hrs south. First I just need to get this darn tower off! I'll keep this in mind.

--Ed

[dbrick]

I am in Jacksonville, and can help with the head gasket if you can get the car up here. I have the top to the water tower as well. A head gasket is not that difficult. Basic hand tools, some cheap gaskets from the forklift store, some fluids and sealers, and a bit of knowledge of profanity, and it can be done in a few hours.

Thanks so much for the offer to help with the head gasket. I don't know how I'd get the car to Jacksonville though. I'm about 2.5 hrs south. First I just need to get this darn tower off! I'll keep this in mind.

--Ed

Well, if it's to the point of the stud being stripped, the tower needs to come off and we have entered the realm of drills, saws, Vise Grips and pipe wrenches. If you can get a long 1/8" good quality drill bit and follow the instructions I posted, it will get the PB blaster in there and get the tower off so the stud can be replaced and the tower will be saved.

If you get a good grip on the good stud and can back it out, you may be able to tap the housing sideways, break it loose from the gasket and rotate the housing around the stuck stud. It won't move veryfar, as the thermostat is in there, but any movement is good. So far you haven't broken anything, so still ahead of the game.

If you suspect or confirm a head gasket, remove the head and have a machine shop get the tower off and replace the studs, probably cost the same as a new tower, though. Hell, if you have it off and pay the shipping, I'll do it up here for free and send it back, but that would be about $75.00 in shipping

Worst Worst case is you can cut the tower off vertically along the side of the stud, this will free the stud, but now you need a tower.

Only other option is once the tower is removed, if it's wrecked, is a regular thermostat housing and a 2000 radiator, which has a fill cap, is a 3 core and fits the car.

[cocoaed]

"Only other option is once the tower is removed, if it's wrecked, is a regular thermostat housing and a 2000 radiator, which has a fill cap, is a 3 core and fits the car."
Dave, thanks for the offer and advice. So, can my radiator be adapted to have a fill cap on it? I know a good radiator shop near me but, no idea what they'd charge to cut a hole in it and add a short neck and fill cap in the center. If they did that, would the hood still close? And the best regular thermostat housing for my 1600 would be from a 240Z? It would be nice to not have to deal with this tower ever again!
--Ed

[Garm]

<<Spent all afternoon trying to get that tower off with no luck! >>

I can relate:

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[spyder]

Whenever I had a bad head gasket, it would pressurize the cooling system and blow water out of the overflow rather quickly.

If it is overheating wouldn't that cause it to boil off and loose coolant?

Let's go for the cheap easy solutions first. If it's a stuck thermostat, you would have hot heater hoses and cabin heat. If the heater hoses cold, perhaps a bad water pump or air caught in the system.

Let's assume the thermostat is not stuck, pump is O.K. You would have some heat in the radiator hoses. Perhaps the radiator is clogged. Mine was.

[tjp]

So, can my radiator be adapted to have a fill cap on it?Ed

This can be done. BUT, the majority of the "fill cap" has to be braised into the top tank. It cannot sit on top of the tank as it will not clear the hood. Don't ask me how I know

The way mine is done, the spin off cap sits basically right on top of the radiator tank. And hood clearance is fine.

tim

[spl310]

I have gotten a tower off a different way. If you get one stud out and can move the tower some, you may be able to remove the rocker shaft and turn the tower a bit. Then CAREFULLY cut the stud at the bottom. The tower will survive for more on the bench stud removal fun, and you can resurface the bottom so it is flat again. If it turns a bit, then the stub of the stud in the head can be removed easily. YMMV, and you CAN dork the head up if you are not very careful.

[cocoaed]

Whenever I had a bad head gasket, it would pressurize the cooling system and blow water out of the overflow rather quickly.

If it is overheating wouldn't that cause it to boil off and loose coolant?

Let's go for the cheap easy solutions first. If it's a stuck thermostat, you would have hot heater hoses and cabin heat. If the heater hoses cold, perhaps a bad water pump or air caught in the system.

Let's assume the thermostat is not stuck, pump is O.K. You would have some heat in the radiator hoses. Perhaps the radiator is clogged. Mine was.

Spyder, Thanks but, its a little late for that. I've already nearly destroyed the tower, trying to get it off. Top caps is now a goner, it was so corroded it just fell apart when I took it off. Still can't get one stud free, have tried heat, tons of solvent, hammers, chisles, etc.. Probably already have 20 hours into this car and its ALL just been on this stupid tower! Seems like a really poor design! I'm beginning to hate this car already!

[cocoaed]

Ok, so I guess I'm going to have to try ruining the studs to get them out. Can these be bought locally at a hardware store or? I SURE DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO ORDER THEM ONLINE AND WAIT FOR THEM TO COME IN! I HATE ORDERING STUFF ONLINE, ALWAYS TAKES TOO LONG TO GET THEM! ARGGG!! I'M ABOUT TO TAKE A SLEDGE HAMMER TO THIS CAR!

[jamesw]

Ed,

First off - take a step back and have your favorite adult beverage. Basically we have all been to this point with our cars - it happened to me when I broke off a head bolt in my block. I just put down my tools, went back in the house, had a refreshment and played w/ my kids.

Next weekend I was happy to have at it again.

You WILL be able to get the thing apart and get a new tower and studs cheaply. There are PLENTY of them around in the part-o-sphere.

Secondly, doing a headgasket on an R16 is only about a 2 hr job - and if you can tow your car up to Sid's place (get a dolly and tow it) you will learn a lot at the same time

BUT - you probably don't have to do the headgasket. If your overflow tank filler cap is bad, you will dump out all of your fluid when the coolant system heats up. There is a pressure relief valve and if it goes bad, your car will dump fluid on the ground while you're driving. Hence "missing" fluid. This happened to me w/ my 1600 in 1993.

So - once you get your thermostat tower replaced, get another pressure relief cap for the overflow.

Good luck - and most importantly enjoy the roadster.

Cheers
James