"I'm Not a Car Guy." - A 1967.5 1600 Refurb Saga

[Gregs672000]

It would be really fun to have these two engines' specs side by side. Cam, displacement, valve size, manifolds, full exhaust, compression ratio/pistons, timing curve and amount of advance etc. You mentioned the differences in carb size and series, but are they running the same chokes (main venturies)? The differences could be just engine to engine, and as you said you're not likely to notice it. What's important is that you're going to have a very nice power band that will put a smile on your face and make the car very fun to drive. A nice mountain road with some good turns and you'll know why it's hard to beat the pure vintage fun these cars provide.

[Alvin]

Peter and Erik, let's get your cars on the dyno. More data for high performance R16s is a good thing!

[iloveredmeat]

Excellent story, start to finish. Thanks for sharing, with photos!

Thanks Fairlady, it's been fun, and I can't wait to actually be able to share assembly photos!

Here's something else important: that dyno graph doesn't tell the whole story. Looking closely at the picture, the numbers listed at right (188hp, 176tq) are both at 5600 rpm, where the white vertical line is on the graph. The hp carries through and even peaks up a little at about 5800. The torque is already on its way down at 5600, and looks like it peaked at 5200, at about 182. Dave will have a printout for you of the numbers every 100 rpm, but I'd say your actual peaks are going to be something like 189hp @ 5800, 182tq @ 5200. Here's a cropped look at that graph:



Looking back at what I texted you that day, I think those numbers are wrong and these are more accurate. Hey, I'd just been in a dyno cell while they were winging your engine up to 6500 rpm, so I may have been a little out of it / giddy with excitement.

I love that the torque stays above 150 from around 3600 all the way past 6000 rpm. This engine is going to be absolutely amazing in your little car.

Ahhh... insight! Thanks, that's interesting, and the long-lost engineer geek in me is so curious to experience how this feels. Makes me want to see other curves, I'll have to go do some searchin'.

Wow! What a transformation

I know! It was actually worse than I remembered and what Rebello was able to do is amazing!

It would be really fun to have these two engines' specs side by side. Cam, displacement, valve size, manifolds, full exhaust, compression ratio/pistons, timing curve and amount of advance etc. You mentioned the differences in carb size and series, but are they running the same chokes (main venturies)? The differences could be just engine to engine, and as you said you're not likely to notice it. What's important is that you're going to have a very nice power band that will put a smile on your face and make the car very fun to drive. A nice mountain road with some good turns and you'll know why it's hard to beat the pure vintage fun these cars provide.

I agree, but honestly that stuff is still above my pay grade (hoping to learn). I suppose I'll learn more when I pick it up, and will share what I can.

Peter and Erik, let's get your cars on the dyno. More data for high performance R16s is a good thing!

Hi Alvin, I'm a ways away from being able to drive this, but that will be a lot of fun, and I'll finally get to meet some other Roadster folk in person!

[Gregs672000]

Peter and Erik, let's get your cars on the dyno. More data for high performance R16s is a good thing!

Actually they're really R21's now, eh? Looks like Robello has got those heads flowing some good air and has found his cams, that's for sure! Think about this: He started with a 96hp engine and developed it into a near 180-200hp, very tractable engine that should be great on the street and reliable all day long. Pretty cool that.

[Alvin]

Peter and Erik, let's get your cars on the dyno. More data for high performance R16s is a good thing!

Actually they're really R21's now, eh? Looks like Robello has got those heads flowing some good air and has found his cams, that's for sure! Think about this: He started with a 96hp engine and developed it into a near 180-200hp, very tractable engine that should be great on the street and reliable all day long. Pretty cool that.

The R21/R22 has been around for awhile too with Lou Mondello's development in Australia. Cool stuff indeed!

[Gregs672000]

The R21/R22 has been around for awhile too with Lou Mondello's development in Australia. Cool stuff indeed!
[/quote]

That's right! Man, would love one of his work of art headers...

[Pjackb]

WOW
very excited for you Peter , my recommendation to try and drive a U20 roadster before driving your car still stands like this you will see just how awesome your engine really is, It wont rev as hard as a U20 but the torque will be phenomenal. What would be awesome once this car is rolling would be a trip to Zcar Garage to get it on their chassis dyno since a lot of cars have been tested there it would give a great comparaison basis also I hear Rob is a genius at tuning these cars. I would also love to see the numbers between 2000-3500 rpm to get a feel of low end grunt

Are you getting a billet flywheel from DRP like Erik? if not you should, I have one and it make the car sooo much more fun I would say it's one of the best upgrade and that engine you just build needs one

[iloveredmeat]

Peter and Erik, let's get your cars on the dyno. More data for high performance R16s is a good thing!

Actually they're really R21's now, eh? Looks like Robello has got those heads flowing some good air and has found his cams, that's for sure! Think about this: He started with a 96hp engine and developed it into a near 180-200hp, very tractable engine that should be great on the street and reliable all day long. Pretty cool that.

R20, R21...

WOW
very excited for you Peter , my recommendation to try and drive a U20 roadster before driving your car still stands like this you will see just how awesome your engine really is, It wont rev as hard as a U20 but the torque will be phenomenal. What would be awesome once this car is rolling would be a trip to Zcar Garage to get it on their chassis dyno since a lot of cars have been tested there it would give a great comparaison basis also I hear Rob is a genius at tuning these cars. I would also love to see the numbers between 2000-3500 rpm to get a feel of low end grunt

Are you getting a billet flywheel from DRP like Erik? if not you should, I have one and it make the car sooo much more fun I would say it's one of the best upgrade and that engine you just build needs one

Thanks Jacques. I'm excited, too... but it also gets me antsy. I've now only seen my car in person once in the last 8 months.

I really like your idea of driving a U20 again. I think I said earlier that I've driven only one Roadster, but I misspoke and I've actually driven two. The first was a 2000 right near me a few years ago, but was more of a project and expense than I wanted at the time... and lots of weird to-do's and even I could tell it ran like crap. Anyway, I took it for a test drive, and man it was still a blast. Chirping through the gears was awesome. The second was the 67.5 1600 I considered buying with the parts car, and that was fun, too.

And I am hoping to get to Z Car Garage for a dyno. I reckon Erik will be done far sooner than me, but if the stars align - Erik and I will meet Alvin there. I think that would be very cool – some Car Guys getting together... and me.

Flywheel – embarrassingly I don't know what I have! I believe my brother said Dave did put a lightened one on, so I'll check it out and assess then.

[Daryl Smith]

Wasn't so many years ago that comment's on here like "a stroker won't have any power over 4,000 rpm" and "You will always have more power out of a stock U20 than you'll get out of a stroker", among others....
I've believed in the capability of the R16 strokers for many years, tho I've been very slow at getting my engine built (my worst fault has been choice of machine shop!), I expect to get it together in the next couple of months, if not sooner. I'll be very happy if I get anywhere close to those #'s with my build!
Thankyou Peter, and others over the last year or so, for finally putting engine #'s up to finally, and decisively, put those comments in the trash bin!!

[Pjackb]

Darryl
While I agree with you in principle , we have to remember most of those comments were directed at a regular run of the mill 1.865 and 2.0L strokers.
2150+cc strokers are completely different animals and not in the same budget league .
I'm talking from experience as I've been contemplating having JT build me a 2.2 pushrod engine for months and know how much to "invest" (I'll do it just not sure when ), cost for something like this is really not far off a 2.2 U20

[Daryl Smith]

Agreed, to a point.
When those comments were made the 1800 cc stroker was very rare, and 2.1 and 2.2 ltr strokers hadn't even been mentioned, as far as I remember.
Likely back around the time of the transition from the email list to 311s.org.....or shortly after...

[iloveredmeat]

Wasn't so many years ago that comment's on here like "a stroker won't have any power over 4,000 rpm" and "You will always have more power out of a stock U20 than you'll get out of a stroker", among others....
I've believed in the capability of the R16 strokers for many years, tho I've been very slow at getting my engine built (my worst fault has been choice of machine shop!), I expect to get it together in the next couple of months, if not sooner. I'll be very happy if I get anywhere close to those #'s with my build!
Thankyou Peter, and others over the last year or so, for finally putting engine #'s up to finally, and decisively, put those comments in the trash bin!!

Darryl
While I agree with you in principle , we have to remember most of those comments were directed at a regular run of the mill 1.865 and 2.0L strokers.
2150+cc strokers are completely different animals and not in the same budget league .
I'm talking from experience as I've been contemplating having JT build me a 2.2 pushrod engine for months and know how much to "invest" (I'll do it just not sure when ), cost for something like this is really not far off a 2.2 U20

Agreed, to a point.
When those comments were made the 1800 cc stroker was very rare, and 2.1 and 2.2 ltr strokers hadn't even been mentioned, as far as I remember.
Likely back around the time of the transition from the email list to 311s.org.....or shortly after...

Well, I reckon you two know more in your little pinky than I might ever learn.

Daryl, I went and read some of your stroker posts and Wow!!!... I only wish I understood it more. I love your passion and your sharing... it really does show that these stroker things are as much of an art as anything else... a committed effort of trial and error and innovation... creativity.

And it makes me realize that I'm just some dumb-luck-guy benefitting from an awesome brother who has a good friend who obviously knows how to make a 1600 scream.

Jacques... I don't know what I could have shopped around and done, but having my brother reach out to Rebello and have both of them team up on this engine project for li'l ol' me??? I couldn't be more fortunate and appreciative. The proof is in the pudding.

[iloveredmeat]

More Detail Stuff

Radio Refresh Project

So, I've been going through my coolers of parts to find something that I can make progress on... even if it is micro-progress on stuff that have ZERO impact on the drivability of my car.

Meet my radio project –

Again... my car had so many original parts. Very lucky that way.

Here is my radio as found:









The condition was actually very good considering the car had been sitting for 35+ years. Definitely worthy of cleaning up, and I wondered if I could make it look a little better... the devil is in the details, especially on 67.5s.

Oddly, I found another 67.5 radio. Pretty rough... not operable, but it had the faceplate and 2 of the three knobs.

I decided to call her Guinea Pig.





I've never tackled anything like this... except I built a couple of models when I was a kid... so my idea was to do a "Feasibility Test" – see if I could get Guinea Pig looking better/presentable.

First thing I did was sand down all of the pits, pick 'em out, sand them again. Detail work.

Then, I filled the pits and corners with JB Weld and sanded and filled and sanded again. I would not use that again.

It wasn't easy. It was frustrating. But I persevered. These photos below still make it look pitted, but after a LOT of micro sanding and tedious detail work, it was actually pretty darn smooth.







I then masked it off - by far the biggest PIA.





Meanwhile, I repainted the orange bar... and this was actually waaaay harder than I thought. Took 3 tries to get it 'straight'





Then I sprayed it all over, crossing my fingers that the masking was okay. I knew there would be some leftover pitting. You can see them clearly in these close up photos, but to the naked eye I am very happy with the results.



Below shows both of my faces. On top is the 'refurbed' faceplate and the bottom is my totally original faceplate.

Couldn't be happier with the comparison.







The 'finished product'.







And my reward: a beautiful ribeye with a big ol' cap.

Public Service Announcement:
Please pull your steaks at 121-125F. Cover in foil. Rest for 10+ minutes. The temp will rise 10+ degrees. You can always put it back on for a minute or two.

Thank you.

[notoptoy]

Nice job on the cosmetics, but, but, but... does it work?

[iloveredmeat]

Nice job on the cosmetics, but, but, but... does it work?

Hi Tom.

Thank you… it is beautiful, isn't it?

And, yes, it works perfectly!!!

Using that technique - pulling the steak off early and covering it — the inherent heat continues to cook, and that allows the juices to 'push' and distribute well through the meat.

The result is a perfect rare- to rare-medium steak which maximizes the flavor.

Thanks.
Peter