Easiest engine swap?

[Jimboz]

First of all, I'll introduce myself. I'm 17 but I come from a roadster family and my dad currently daily drives a '68 2000 w/solex's. On the weekends I get a chance to take it out and it blows me away every time I drive it. Also, I can't think of a better looking Japanese car, ever (except maybe a g35 coupe).

I'm about to head off to college at texas a&m (i think) and I would love to take a roadster with me. Trouble is, the parents won't waver from their insistence on a new, or at least newer car. Even with his experience the solex's, Dad has confided in me that carburation can be a big pain in the ass.

SO, I'm hoping I can bridge the gap by asking for a roadster with a modern motor swap. I'm looking for a quick, painless swap that won't suck the soul out of the Datsun.

The main priorities are:
-Cheap (only have about 10k to work with, and have to buy a donor car to begin with)
-Reliable (no Jaguar V12 recommendations, please)
-A quick swap (don't have a lot of time. going to college next fall!)
-I'd love for it to sound good. (I ]don't want to lament the absence of the baritone U20 growl and the sucking of the solex's)

From what I've read, we have all the tools we need for the swap. My dad's an ex mechanic, so he has the necessary mechanical skills for it. Neither of us know how to weld, and we'd like to keep the swap as in-house as we can, so a swap with a minimum of welding is preferred.

Any help or recommendations would be really appreciated!
Thanks,
Jim

[drewnamis]

seems like the miata swap is the easiest way to go. You can get a tranny for 200, a 1.6 JDM engine for 450, a megasquirt for 650 and an ITB setup for like 1500.

[ppeters914]

Your other options are a KA24 or SR20. KA should be cheaper. There's a complete write-up on doing the SR swap. Search the forum for KA info.

[FergO2k]

seems like starting with something like this: (well, not an auto but you know what I mean)

http://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/car/433141372.html

getting it running right, then swapping it into the roadster would leave you well under the 10k, even with having someone do the minor welding for you. (pocket the frame crossmember for the front pulleys, if I remember correctly)

while this soudns racy:
<<You>>

If I was going off to college, needed something reliable and lo-time consuming as far as upkeep, and didn't want to make new friends with a tuner, I'd not go in this direction unless I was already experienced with engine map tweaking.
But that is just a .02 opinion.
I'd bet the Miata/ITB set-up would be easier to sell in the tuner market when youa re done with it, they think the KA is a "delivery truck" motor.

[FergO2k]

Oops!

this:
while this soudns racy:
<<You>>

was supposed to read:
<<seems>>

[spl310]

Well, the Zetec swap is a no modification swap. It can be done on the cheap - maybe $2k for the bare bones version. That is the full fuel injected stick shift deal...

It is fast, reliable and sounds great.

[MTyler]

Well, the Zetec swap is a no modification swap. It can be done on the cheap - maybe $2k for the bare bones version. That is the full fuel injected stick shift deal...

It is fast, reliable and sounds great.

I've always wondered about the RWD trans sourcing. What transmissions are easily acquired in the US? Not too many ford Sierras over here.

[spl310]

Well, the most commonly used is the T-9 which was in the Merkur, but as I understand it, there are adaptors for the T-5 which is widely available in a whole plethora of cars...

[JFBrink]

For absolute ease and inexpense, I recommend the Miata 1.6 liter engine with the 5-speed transmission. For the same ease, but a little more expense, go for the Miata 1.8 liter with the same transmission.

Outside of England, the Zetec swap is only easy in theory, and not cheap by any stretch. I spent months researching the parts and sources necessary to do this swap and finally shied away: too much alchemy.

Getting the T9 or any RWD transmission behind the Zetec, even with what resources the US Caterham guys can offer, is no easy feat, and requires buying lots of bits and pieces that add up fast.

To give you a sense of the expense: I put together worksheets for the cost of the parts and fab (no assembly) required to swap a Miata, a Zetec or a Lexus 1UZ V-8 into the Roadster, and they broke down as follows:

Miata: $3000
Zetec: $4800
Lexus: $2900

The Lexus would be the most expensive if I weren't basing my numbers on a free drivetrain from my mother-in-law's car.

Hope this helps. If you do go Zetec, I can send you my research. Likewise, I have a good amount of info on the Miata, too. Hopefully my Miata swap blog will be up in a week or so, too.

Jesse.

[spl310]

Outside of England, the Zetec swap is only easy in theory, and not cheap by any stretch.

Why do you say that? I have driven the Zetec swapped car. It works fine. There is no cutting, and the parts are available. I searched and found a 60,000 mile Zetec motor for $250 - running. I found a T5 for $150 in good condition. The Zetec motor comes with the full harness and anything else you want. As I see it, a bell housing, some adaptors and the brackets to mount the engine to the stock Roadster mounts surely won't cost $4400.



The Miata package is nice in that it is a complete package, there is no disputing that. But if you were going to put an engine in, wouldn't you opt for more than a 1600?

[drewnamis]

For absolute ease and inexpense, I recommend the Miata 1.6 liter engine with the 5-speed transmission. For the same ease, but a little more expense, go for the Miata 1.8 liter with the same transmission.

To give you a sense of the expense: I put together worksheets for the cost of the parts and fab (no assembly) required to swap a Miata, a Zetec or a Lexus 1UZ V-8 into the Roadster, and they broke down as follows:

Miata: $3000
.

Hope this helps. If you do go Zetec, I can send you my research. Likewise, I have a good amount of info on the Miata, too. Hopefully my Miata swap blog will be up in a week or so, too.

Jesse.

I'm looking forward to the Miata swap blog, as I'm knee deep in Miata parts!

[JFBrink]

The Zetec swap, as an end-product is fabulous, I think there's no disputing that. And I'm willing to mostly concede the issue of price -- I was pricing lower mileage Zetec engines (at $1000) and fully-rebuilt T9 transmissions (at $1050). Also, I was sourcing the costly cooling rail.

But, the original request was for ease. I called one place and got an engine and transmission that simply bolt together. To source the parts that join the T9 to the Zetec I was looking at 5 vendors on 2 continents, $800 and piecing it all together.

And, for some reason, despite the fact that many, many people, at least in England, have mated the Zetec to the T9, no one agrees on which parts actually work in joining them (which spigot bearing, for example). And then how do you find a bit from a Ford Mondeo in the US?

I think the merits of the Zetec and the Miata are about equal if someone is simply handing you the keys, but if you have to do it yourself, and don't have friends (as Stickerman does) in the UK, go Miata.

Jesse.

[spl310]

Hmmm... Well, from what I am reading, you are comparing apples and oranges. You are looking at low mileage, higher cost engines for the Zetec, but a free engine for the Lexus swap. Not quite a fair comparison, is it? I did a little poking around and found a 36k mile Zetec engine for $195 - cheaper than my previous price and lower cost. Of course, shipping comes into play there. Still, bargains are to be had. If you want a rebuilt, there is a rebuilt Zetec on eBay right now for $599 plus shipping. Scavange the needed extras off of a derelict Focus and you can still be cheap.

For the transmission, you keep pointing to the T9. While that is all well and good, there is a US company that sells a bell housing to mount a T5 to a Zetec. Their link is:

http://rs584.securehostserver.com/~quad4rod/index.php

With a T5 in manual transmission mustangs, rangers, explorers and the like, they are plentiful. Also keep in mind that plenty of those are being removed in favor of the Tremec transmissions by those that plan to beat them unmercifully with juiced up V8 engines. That having been said, plenty of T5s survive the floggings before they are swapped as well. Anyway, I am rambling a bit. The bell housing is $495. Not exactly a budget breaker in the grand scheme of things. I have not dug into the price of a rebuilt T5.

Regarding the cooling rail, I am not sure what piece you are referring to, so I cannot comment on it. The sourcing of parts is not that difficult from what I have been able to gather, so I am a little perplexed by this point.

I have not done either swap, but I have looked at the Zetec swap a bit. It requires no cuts to the body or frame. I seem to recall that the Miata swap required frame mods to the X member (please correct me if I am wrong). That would almost necessitate the removal of the body. While the removal of the body in and of itself is not a huge deal, it adds exponentially to the time required to do the swap - which flys in the face of the request.

Also, since this was a request for a budget swap by a college bound student, I did not intend to go into the comparison of rebuilt engines. Any modern engine that is maintained can be counted on to run well in excess of 200,000 miles before needing serious work. (as an example, I have a Jeep with 192k miles that has never been opened up. It runs STRONG too.)

Again, the Miata is nice because it is a single source package. If it requires the body removal, that would make it more problematic in my mind. YMMV...

[Alvin]

When are people going to wise up and start doing the Zetec swap?
Surely there must be more than one example of roadster with this drivetrain running around!

[JFBrink]

When it comes to the Roadster, the singular example uses a T9, so it is the touchstone for this car. The T5 is sufficiently wide as to require mods to the transmission tunnel. I'm pretty sure it's longer that than T9, too, so you won't have the stick coming out the stock hole anymore.

To unite the T5 or T9 to the Zetec, the transplanter will still have to source a variety of pieces for which there is (a) no definitive shopping list and (b) no straightforward US source. Once one person documents this, it *will* be easy, but I don't think the poster of this question needs to be that person.

The cooling rail takes the water from what is now the back of the formerly transverse Zetec engine and brings it to the front, where the radiator is. In the photos of Stickerman's car, this achieved by some radiator hose and some copper pipe. This works fine, but... well, like a rebuilt transmission, I don't see the point in skimping.

I agree totally with Alvin that we would all benefit from more people doing the Zetec swap and documenting the process for the rest of us, as I am endeavoring to do for the Miata swap.

We should be debating about how to supercharge these engines, not how to get them into the cars!

Jesse.