Stock Class

[Ponder]

Okay. I've been waffling around for months now on autocrossing the 1600. And I suppose, since I haven't actually bought the thing, I still am. But I think I've decided on my startegy for the upcoming season.

I'm going to run it in C Street Prepared (Street Tires Class). I don't know how common Street tires class is across the country, but we have a class where everyone can run on tires with a 200 wear rating or higher and everyone who signs up for it is indexed together. I want to convert it back to H-stock so I eventually will get an index more appropriate for the car. I think the conversion will be fairly simple, I don't think there's too much modified on the car, but it's going to be hard for a novice like me to tell for sure. Wheels, steering wheel, shocks, etc. Maybe a CSP effort in a couple of years.

The car seems stiff. I don't know if it's got comp springs or not, I'll try to check this weekend. I wondering if they'd be legal in stock class since you could get them from the dealer.

Other legalities I'm wondering about:
Can I move the battery to the trunk? I thought I had seen that as being against the rules before, but can't find it now.

The thing just rumbles. The headers are bluish-white. How do I tell if they're stock?

The car has coilovers on it. Are they legal? Again, I thought I had seen that they weren't, but now I can't find that.

I was thinking of seeing if diamond racing wheels can provide a set of stock dimension wheels. 4.5" wide, right? What would be the offset?

Apologies, I'm going off of a copy of the rules on the internet. I'll get my hardcopy at the meeting next month.

Thanks so much.
Steve

[S Allen]

Boy, I am going to be no help on this one. I am into the road racing scene and know nothing about autocross. I do know the best way to proceed is to obtain a copy of the current rules and follow them to the letter. I have the GCR General Competition Rule book and although at times hard to follow pretty much tells me what I can and cannot do to my road race roadster. Maybe one of the autocrossers will stumble onto our little forum and be able to answer your questions directly. Good luck and have fun.

Steve

[Dred]

Ok, I'm a former Solo II guy that ran old cars (240Z, BMW 2002 ...).

One thing about the SCCA rules that you're going to have to consider: If it isn't specifically allowed - it is against the rules.

The coilovers bump you all the way to prepared or modified class. You might try street modified 2, but you will be up against some very stiff competition. Basic problem is that you have modified the location of the springs with your coilovers. You can get away with them in street prepared on a strut car, but not on a roadster.

You cannot move the battery in stock class; not sure about street prepared. But, if you do move your battery, make sure you do a careful install that meets SCCA tech inspection guidelines. If it isn't done properly you won't get to compete at all - regardless of class. There is a lot of stress on a battery mount in Solo II, so plan wisely.

Now, for the reality of regional solo 2 competition, you can likely do any mods you like to your roadster without raising the eyebrows of your competitors. You aren't actually disqualified from a class till one of your competitors protests your car. It's been a couple years, but the CSP I remember was wicked fast - you'll be quite awhile mastering your driving skill before you start knocking on the leader's times, so ... When competing in a class that I'm not legal for, I generally show my competitors what makes me illegal and ask them if they think this is an issue for that event. Not every racer is so forthright, and the mantra among many is: they can't protest what they can't see.

Since you sound like your new to Solo 2, I suggest that you only tackle safety issues for the first year. Don't change anything on the car. Learn to drive it to its limits. And, then: never change more than one thing at a time. Many folks never learn how to drive (which is most of the game) because they are constantly changing the way their car responds to inputs. Better to concentrate on understanding the feedback, and planning your lines through the course.

Hope this helps,
Milton

[timwhite]

Milton, good thig you showed.
I'm trying to decide if i should go into solo 2 or road rallying with my datsun here in Ohio.
Where a good source of info for solo 2? It appears that I'm putting a mazda rx7 rear into my datsun and I'd like to know the legalities of such. And how did you do in that 240z?


Tim

[Ponder]

Milton,

Thanks for the reply. I soloed my CRX for a year and a half before it got totalled last September. I'm STILL mourning the thing. Long story. But it was a loss of a great car. But, I never did a single mod to it so I hadn't worried (much) about what I could or couldn't do to it. I was thinking about moving it to CSP, but the changes I was thinking about I knew the legalities of pretty well.

My cousin has been trying to sell be a '68 1600 his dealership took in on a trade about ten years ago. Really looks and drives like a solid car. The problem is, that it's already had changes made to it, that I really haven't investigated fully. I was thinking as I made my first post that I should have checked the SP rules. They would give me more clues about what's illegal in Stock. If a rule is specified in SP, you can pretty much make the assumption that it wasn't legal in stock. I think that must be where I thought I had read rules about battery relocation and coilovers.

Anyway, stock conversion may be interesting. CSP in my region is pretty quick, but only two or three regulars and they run R-compound tires. I'm probably of running Street Tires Class. I won that class in my CRX last year regularly. But, the CRX with a G stock index was a great car for that class. Running the Datsun with a CSP index is going to be tough. I would say it's not impossible, but they're making a rule change in my region about the way they total up year end driver points that may make the Street Tires class a lot more competitive. I may eve gret one of the regular CSP guys in there, which will be impossible. The 1600 just doesn't have the horses to run with them.

Does anyone know if I've got the wheel size right (14" x 4.5")and what is the offset of the original wheel? How about the sterring wheel diameter. I THINK stock conversion wil involve wheels, steeling wheel,, shocks, maybe springs.

Oh that was another question, what about the comp springs? Legal? I kind of doubt it. I wasn't able to count coils this weekend, maybe next.

Anyway thanks again.
Steve

[Dred]

Tim,

I'm prolly not the right "rules" guy to ask, but my bet is going with a Mazda rear end throws you into Modified. LOL, the 240Z - well let's just say the one I AutoX'd existed before my 20th b'day. I thought I was the end all of drivers and loved smok'n tires and drift'n turns. So, I wasn't fast against the clock, but I always looked cool (LOL). I just sold my second Z (financing the SR20DE install) but never made it to an event with that car (no trailer, and no registration - the project that didn't happen).

But, if you do a web search you can generally locate "last years" rules. You gotta buy a rule book to see the current stuff - gotta have one for national level competition anyway, so prolly a good idea to get one before your build if you wanna compete very seriously.

And, Steve:

I don't know about the factory dimensions. But the factory sport suspension stuff would be fine as long as it was possible to buy one with that stuff installed. I'm too green in the roadster game to really know this type of information. But, you can bet you won't get protested out of CSP for runn'n them. And, FWIW, counting coils won't give you the answer up front. Nissan recently changed suppliers and the newer sport coils have more windings than the older stuff - same spring rate, but a different design.

Hey, I don't even know what stuff I've got on my car as I haven't found ride height measurements I could compare to yet. I do know that my car is "plenty" squat, so my guess is that the sport stuff was installed at some point (FWIW: 185/60 14s fill the fender wells completely even though they are shorter than the factory tires).

Now, I will try to give you the skinny on stock as I remember it: shock absorbers are open, cat back exhaust is open (don't know what this means for non catalyzed cars <LOL>), safety equipment is open (except no cages), wheels and tires are limited according to some relationship with the factory setup, and I think the air filter is open. Everything else must be factory. In stock class you could conceivably get protested for a missing sun visor. But you can bring the fastest car a dealership could deliver to the track, and you can modify your car to that spec if you go "all the way". Meaning you could legally drop a Solex U20 and 5sp into a pre-'68 1600. Won't work for the high windshields though - you'd be limited to SUs unless the Solex's are specifically allowed (which they could be since they were quite the popular upgrade back in the Roadster hey day).

Now, I've been working from seemingly distant memory, so double check if you're making radical decisions. A good place to start might be http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/

[SLOroadster]

Hmmm. It sounds like I could be screwed. There is no way in heck that I can autoX in stock class. I have an aluminum flywheel, solexs, front and rear sway bars, konis, and the comp springs on my 69 2000. I also have miata seats and 280Z 6 spoke wheels as well as a set of jet coated headers running into a 2 inch exhaust ending in a supertrapp, as well as an MSD 6AL ignition. If nothing else, I have a rocket of a street car . Now if only I could get around to putting it back together.....
Will

[SLOroadster]

The 1500s, 1600s and 2000s are all in CSP. This is a good thing in my case. Here is a link to the CSP rules http://www.moutons.org/sccasolo/Rules/sp.html.
It has everything on what you can and can't do. CSP is a free-for-all class, however a well tuned roadster should hold its own. The big hitters in the class are 914s 924s and 944s. BMW E30 M3s, Integra Type Rs, non turbo MR2s and mazda miatas and non turbo RX7s lurk in this class as well. It looks to be a very compeditive class. A friend of mine bought a 67.5 2000 from some guy back east who aparently never finished off the podium with it. To say the car sticks like its on Velcro is an understatement. Sweeping 25mph curves taken at closer to 70 mph are uneventfull (but you wouldn't beleve the looks people give you )
-Will
BTW, how does one put coilovers on a roadster? Thats a new one.

[Ponder]

As to the coilovers, all I know right now is that they are Monroes. Don't have a model number. I wonder how much stiffness it adds. There are dome pictures on the WYCROC site of members soloing, and there are separate pictures of Gary Boone and someone else going through the same corner. The difference in body roll was amazing.

[DatsunBucky]

There has been some talk of replacing the Datsun rear end with one out of an RX7 SE to get the limited slip, so I did a little reading with the SCCA rulebook.

15.6.A states: "The type of brake is unrestricted, (e.g., drum brakes may be replaced with disc brakes)." So far so good.

15.10.S.2: "Any gear ratio, limited slip or locked differential is permitted." Still OK.

15.10.S.3: "Any axle tube, or final drive housing is permitted."

Sounds like it is legal to replace the old Datsun rear end with one out of a Mazda, even if it needs to be modified to do it. My opinion only.

As far as coil overs in a roadster:

15.5.A: "Spring seats and points of attachment may be replaced or altered. Adjustable spring perches are permitted."

15.5.B: "Alternately, all cars may fit "coil over" type springs with tubular, load bearing shock absorbers or struts."

Street Mod may be a slower or faster class than Prepared, but it probably depends on the area of the country.

Whatever.

Bucky

[DatsunBucky]

What I quoted out fo the SCCA rulebook are for the "Prepared" class. Just thought I'd clarify that in case there was some confusion. After all, the thread started out "Stock Class".

[Ponder]

Yeah DB I was picking up on that.

I know prepared class is wicked fast. A guy in our club runs a Datsun 1200 in D-prepared. The car is a trailer-queen and is really a race car: full roll cage, every bit of weight taken out of it, I'm not sure what else. The other prepared car in our club is a Factory Five Cobra. Again, pretty quick. I asked the 1200 guy about the roadster and he said it might be agood car because there was probably a lot of weight to be taken out of it. So he was thinking along the lines of his car and thought it'd be good. you wouldn't have a street legal car anymore though.

Don Miller in Idaho ran a Roadster at Nationals last year. He appararently had a bad day. He just sold that car. It had a 3 liter Turbo Z engine in it and ran it in E-Modified.

Dred, (if you're still around) a small correction, you can run any engine in C-street prepared that was offered on the line. In stock class the 2000 runs in E-stock and the 1600 runs in H stock.

I'm getting my rule book tonight, I think, so a may have some edits.

Thanks for the conversation,
Steve

[DatsunBucky]

I don't think anyone ever answered about the steering wheel diameter. I have the factory manual for the '67 1600, and it says the diameter is 15.75 inches.

Bucky

[DatsunBucky]

BTW, how does one put coilovers on a roadster? Thats a new one.

I think it should be easy for the front, since the shock sits inside the spring. Then it's just a matter of removing the spring and shock and replacing them with the coil-over unit.

The back would indeed be a project, since the rear springs locate the rear-end as well as supplying the weight-bearing. You'd have to design and fabricate all the locating arms, both fore and aft, and side-side, before you could mount the coil-overs. To me, seems like more trouble than it's worth, but, you never know.

Bucky

[DatsunBucky]

I don't think anyone ever answered about the steering wheel diameter. I have the factory manual for the '67 1600, and it says the diameter is 15.75 inches.

Bucky