Hi all, this is my first post in thisforum since I never know such forum existed before. I am happy knowing that many fellow enthusiasts are available on the web.
I have a question regarding my 1600 that diesels when I turn off the engine. I recently synchronized the SU carbs and set the timing to 0 and idles at 800. It runs fine, with exception of little hesitation at low rpm and diesels afterwards.
My manifold as no crack, float is good, needle is good, ATF oil is there, seats are good, linkages are intact, piston is good, electronic ingition kit installed. The only problem is the piston springs are not the same height, they are 1/4" different between the two.
So if you can guide me how to get rid of the diesels or even to make the car runs better I will greatly appreciate it. Hopefully by April my car is gonna be in top notch condition so I can go to Solvang and meet you guys... [:)]
Sounds like to me you have your timing WAY! to retarded I believe for most 1600 they need to be set at 16 degrees. Unless I miss my guess the could be part or all of your problem when you do your timing make sure you lower your rpms to keep the mechanical advance from kicking in and disconnect the vacuum to prevent vaccuum advance. Hopefully some of the others guys will read your post and offer their two cents worth.
Timing is everything and it does sound as though yours is way off. Russ and Sid are both correct. If you still have the later smog type dizzy then 0 degrees is correct. If you have the early pre-smog dizzy(best) then timing is 16 BTDC. If you still have the later dizzy in there I would replace it. You have three basic options #1 Cheapest: Replace the guts with the pre-smog.(springs and plate) #2 Not too exspensive: Replace the whole dizzy with a rebuilt pre-smog unit. #3 Pricy(but well worth it) replace it with one of Gary Boone's EI dizzys. I do not think it was your carbs-once they are set leave them alone. One of your other posts asked about lean and rich. You were correct in your assuption as lean usually backfires out carbs and rich can backfire out of the tailpipe but it is usually indicated by a black sooty coating on the exhaust tip and/or black exhaust fumes . Good luck.
Thanks for the reply everybody... hmmm,, I am having difficulties distinguishing my distributor now. I serioously have no idea whether mine is the older ot later type.
Just recently though I had a mechanic convert it from old distributor points to electronic timing kit. I dont know much about this as well, but now there are two wires coming out from the distributor that connect to the ignition coil.
Maybe I'll try to play around between 0 degree to 16 BTDC, and hope to see the best result. There is no black somke coming out fro the tail pipe, just when it's cold white smoke come out for about 5 minutes and no more. even sometime water comes out... hmm... I dont know why, but hope nothing to serious.
If you dont mind me asking, what is blowby anyway??
Thanks guys for helping out, I like this forum more than yesterday... hahaha.... A lot of helpful people who knows what's going on. Thanks!
Hey LongBeach311.............I live pretty close and work even closer to you in LB.....I just finish rebuilding my 1600's engine, and it would be nice to get in touch with local Roadster fans. You can e-mail me at jorge0227@aol.com. Take care!
<<t's cold white smoke come out for about 5 minutes and no more. even sometime water comes out... hmm... I dont know why, but hope nothing to serious. >>
When a car's timing is way off (as your sounds like), it ican increase the chances of overheating the engine. Does your car have a working temp gauge? The reason I ask is that white smoke, and water from the tailpipe could be a sign of a bad head gasket.
If you have been running the car with the timing far off course and the engine is over heating...there could be an issue with the head gasket as well.
It could be that your carb throttle shafts are worn. My car did that until I switched to solexs. My SUs were tired. The white smoke is not a good sign. Check your fluid level if it disappears, you have a headgasket leak.
good luck,
Will
Sorry, I find modern engine swaps revolting. Keep your G, R, or U series in your Roadster!
Yeah, white smoke is not a good thing. Black is better but still not right. Was your car pinging at all when you drove it? If you put the aftermarket EI on a smog dizzy you just compouded your problem.
Here is probably more than you ever wanted to know about timing and dizzys. The high windshield 68 and later had a smog compliant distributor that allowed 17.5 degrees centrifugal advance. The dizzy rotates once for every two rotations of the crank. That 17.5 x 2 equals 35 degrees at the crank. 35 degrees should be used as the maximum advance generally applied to either the 1600 or the 2000 motors. I run my 1600 at around 31 degrees. Condition of motor, cam, and carbs to mention a few factors will affect this final number. As an initial setting I use 31 minus the maximum centrifugal advance at the dizzy x 2 for the two crank rotations. The high windshield with the original dizzy should be set at 0 degrees TDC (Top Dead Center).This is okay for just sitting and idiling but does not give you much power for taking off from a dead stop. The smog dizzy can cause all kinds of drivability problems. Get rid of it sooner or later. Putting an after market electronic unit on does little other than enhancing the problems already mentioned above. You can play around with the smog dizzy and timing but you will never gain much ground. I say again--get rid of it! Replace it with an early non-smog dizzy with a centrifugal advance of 7.5 dgrees and most of your drivability problems will go away. 7.5 x 2 equals 15 degrees. On the 1600 with a pre-smog dizzy you can go with 16 BTDC as an initial setting. Works for me and many others.
You can convert your smog dizzy to a pre-smog not utilizing the following parts::
light spring number**: 22110-14600
heavy spring number: 22110-25600
cam part number: 22132-14605 for metric engines
weights, if needed : 22109-71300
**Part number has two springs with it, one light and one very heavy.
Personally speaking I would not waste your time as the dizzy could have worn bushing as well. Any wobble in the dizzy rotor shaft is a good inidcation the bushings are shot. You could replace them but getting a rebuilt unit is much easier.
Also make sure your vacum advance is functioning. Not a show stopper but it will help the engine run smoother under throttle changes. The 2 liter solex cars do not run a vacum advance.
So, again, if you own a high windshield car-consider replacing the stock smog dizzy for one from a 66-67 to get the pre-smog specs. The early dizzys have SAE fasteners while the later ones have metric. Other than pulling one apart to look at the advance they are hard to tell apart.
Steve
Last edited by S Allen on Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:27 am, edited 2 times in total.
Excellent information Steve! I have just one thing to add. For those of us that are too lazy to disassemble the distributor to just look at the number on the point cam, it is possible to check what you have with very little dismemberment. Undo the big phillips head screw that holds the distributor to the base (may want to mark it somehow so you can put it back where it belongs...) disconnect the ignition wire and take off the distributor cap. Pull the distributor up and out of the car. Now, without taking anything else apart, you can check the point cam very easily.
Using a penlight, look through the gap in the point plate by the point plate mounting screws. While doing this, turn the shaft and look for the point cam base to come by. You will see the number stamped on it - either 17.5 or 7.5 or some other number. If it is anything other than 7.5, it is time to go shopping....
I should add your little tid bit and make that a tech section on the main site. One other thing that TR brought to my attention a while back is the fact that if you do replace the dizzy or change out the guts you need to replace your smog needles in your carbs for the early non-smog needles as well. It is kind of a domino effect where changing one thing causes you to address other things as well. This is all well worth the effort though.
Ouch, white smoke is not good thing.... I hope it is nothing serious. Because it is only for the first 5 minutes or so, maybe not even. I thought it is because of the weather. And no, the fluid/coolant has no problem. It is still there, about the same level since a long time ago.
And yes, the problem arise when the sh**ty mechanic installed the electronic ignition. Right now I set the timing to about 10 degrees, and the diesels is not soo much anymore. Maybe I should keep playing around with the timing and see the best results.
Jorge!!!! I am glad you are close by bro. I am located a block away from CSULB. When you have time please call me at 562 607 4279 and my name is Harry. I will email you in the near future regardnig this. I would love to work on cars with somebody!! [:)] I have rooms and tools, but lack of knowledge... hahaha...
Right now I am at school and have Business Statistic midterm in 2 hours from now, I better study this one first and worry about my Roadster later. Thanks for the reply and great info guys!
With all due respect to others on this board, white smoke is not necessarily a bad thing. It could be benign rather than malignant. Does the "white smoke" only go a foot or two from the exhaust tip before it dissipates? Or does it float away in the breeze?
Let's assume that you're using an anti-freeze mixture in the cooling system rather that straight water. Unless the white smoke smells "sweet" and it's not coming out in great, billowing clouds, it's probably just condensation. I was raised in L.A. (north Redondo Beach) until we moved to Utah, and I know it gets cold enough there for exhaust steam. (Recent weather there is an anomaly.) Humidity also plays a part. That would also explain why water sometimes spits out. Condensation is normal. You're also getting condensation in the oil, and I've read that it takes about 20 miles of driving for the oil to get hot enough to get rid of the water in it.
That your water level doesn't go down any is also a sign that you're not burning anti-freeze. But the smell is really the biggest give-away.
As far as the dieseling goes, along with timing issues, it is quite often caused by a hot spot in the combustion chamber or on the top of the piston. This is usually associated with carbon build-up. Part of the build-up (usually a corner) gets hot enough to keep igniting the fuel-air mixture after the spark is removed. You'll notice not too many fuel-injected vehicles continue to run after they're shut off. The injectors don't squirt when the ignition is off, so no fuel, no dieseling.
A funny story. We had a '76 Suburban with the 454, and it would diesel like a champ. I had heard that one way to stop it was to quickly rev the engine, shut off the key and at the same time, floor the accelerator. It had been working good, but once when I did this at a grocery store, it backfired. Not some little pop, but a huge ka-bloom. It blew the entire seam out on one of the mufflers, and set off a car alarm about 75 ft away. Good thing we had Midas mufflers...
Another way to stop dieseling is an old-school trick with down-draft carbs (we have side draft). Get the engine nice and hot, run it at about 2000 rpm, then pour water down the carb, but not so much as to kill the engine. The water turns to steam in the combustion chamber, and will blast most the carbon out except for the really stubborn spots. They usually need to be mechanically removed (scraped or media-blasted off).
Anyway, I hope some of the information you get from this site is useful in your particular instance. This site is definitely one of my favorites.
HAhahaha... thanks Bucky for the advice, I was laughing when you said KABOOM! Well, right now to avoid dieseling what I do is I put the gear on 1st, turn the key off, and slowly raise the clutch... voila no diesels, well maybe very little. but I dont know if this is going to mess up other thnig or not.
As for the white smoke, well I started it this afternoon, about 70 F outside and no smoke, just couple drops of water... so I guess that is a good sign.
Thanks for helping all this far. I will take some picture of the smoke, if it presence, and the engine bay. Thanks guys!
