R16 engine

[Tynan]

Should I hone these cylinders or leave em to a pro. I hit em with some pb blaster

[david premo]

PM sent

[Gregs672000]

PM sent

That's probably a good thing
I'll wait...

[Tynan]

PM sent

That's probably a good thing
I'll wait...

It was he's VERY helpful and we had a nice chat

[Gregs672000]

Yes, Dave is a good guy and very knowledgeable.
So I'm thinking I see 3 bent and one absent intake valve, piston damage, an unclear/unknown cylinder bore condition, an ok looking cam gear (will need to see the other gears), unknown crank condition (haven't got that far disassembled yet). Not yet horrible... the head will probably need everything, but you would do it regardless if the engine were just tired vs broken anyway... block will likely need more than a hone I'm thinking, pistons, and the crank needs to be looked at, rods checked...so ok...
Still in?
Got a machine shop close by?

[Tynan]

Ya. Probably going all new pistons and valves. Pulling pistons now. Have a ball hone coming Tuesday. I can't mess the engine up anymore than it already is. Plus I'm learning about engines

[Gregs672000]

Great! Like I said, everyone starts with their first one and we're happy to help. You will want a machine shop to evaluate the block to see if you can hone the bores or if they are worn to where the next size piston is required and the block needs to be bored to the next size... not something you can do at home.

Before you start buying parts, the evaluation needs to be complete... the head needs to be evaluated, and they will determine what it needs and if there are any issues beyond a rebuild (cracks, severe warping, corrosion). Typically it will need guides, valves, seats and seals, and the springs checked to make sure they are still within spec, then LIGHTLY surfaced to create a good sealing surface for the head gasket. We will need to see the cam lobes for damage/wear as well as the rocker arms. I'm assuming you didn't number the rocker arms when removed, though you may not have dissasssmbled the head (if you do, NUMBER THE ROCKER ARMS as that can save you a little $ having them resurfaced if needed, and maybe replacing them at $90 each! If the machine shop disassembles, which I assume is what will happen, TELL THEM TO NUMBER THE ROCKERS)... the cam and rocker arm have worn a pattern together and need to remain mated or they can damage each other if mismatched. Usually only a machine shop that specializes in cam regrinds will be set up to surface rocker arms and cams as it's somewhat unique. The machine shop will clean and measure the block, evaluate/measure the crank for wear/damage and determine what needs to be done and what size main and rod bearings it will need (good idea to have it "magnafluxed" to check for cracks). The rods need to be checked for damage and bend and the "small end" need to be inspected to make sure there's no binding when the piston pin is in place. We will want to see the timing gears... we can tell you their condition and advise on any need to replace (replace both chains regardless).

After all this, you will know what parts to buy. Sometimes you can make some decisions that save you money... for example, I've seen replacement pistons that were a size or two bigger than what the block would accept if it were bored to "the next size up" that cost a lot less due to a special buy or vendor surplus, so you may decide to have the shop go a size or two bigger in the bore to match those pistons instead. Yes, it reduces the number of times the engine can be rebuilt but it will probably never need another rebuild anyway. Working closely with your machine shop is important, so try to make friends (I've found donuts to be effective). Gain some knowledge (as you are, read the manual over and over, and ask questions here) before you go so it makes sense to YOU (they'll know what to do!). Spend time on the various vendor websites to start a parts budget. Head bolts should be replaced with new or switched to studs BTW.

We are here to help you, and you absolutely can do this, but it's important to take your time and be patient. Things CAN go wrong (see a few of my posts from last summer with the broken piston pin!) but we can surely help you avoid known trouble spots and emphasize caution or confirm actions before you get in trouble. Know that this will be an undertaking, it's gonna cost money, time and patience, but it is very rewarding, fun and interesting.
Onward!

[Tynan]

I haven't taken rockers off yet. Haven't read that far. Dave is helping best he can

[FergO2k]

+1 on the donuts for the machine shop!
Good methodical approach, remove and observe before proceeding. (I often get too excited, then find out later I shoulda...)
Anyway, mine is NOT the expert opinion, but when gear teeth look like witches hats, they are showing wear. Real peaky is bad (though we are used to seeing that on our bicycles from when we were kids). They are meant to be an involute.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involute_ ... a%20circle.

So that being said, wait for a more knowledgeable opinion, but yours are not looking real bad.
Pic #1 has noticeable flats, and the desired convex "bulge" going downward, not concave coming up to a pointy top.
But talk to someone smart, not just someone who types way too early in the morning! (and bribes with donuts but no longer eats them!)

[Gregs672000]

Excellent! I hear you on the donuts Fergus, I'm only allowed a maple bar on very rare occasions! Like birthdays!

The gears all look great, and that will certainly save you some bucks. Do change out the chains... they are not expensive and are a wear item. From what I can see the guide looks good, and does not appear to have experienced any chain strikes on the "L". You're doing a good job disassembling things. Remove the oil pan and you can use a chunk of 2x4 wood to fit between a crank counter weight and the side of the block to keep the crankshaft from turning, allowing you to be able to remove the front crank pully bolt (very tight 120lbs or more torque), then the front cover. The gears will slide off next, likely need a RUBBER mallet or use a wood wedge and hammer to progressively tap the gears forward with the chains until they slide off (always use soft things like wood to avoid any metal to metal hitting of things), then remove the main and rod bearing caps (you can help remove the rod caps by tapping the threaded ends of the rod bolts with a wood drift and hammer to separate the rod from the crank a little and it will then slide off). Remove the crankshaft, then spin the motor upright and use wood or the end of the hammer to tap the pistons out the bottom of the engine (be prepared to catch them... I dropped one once and broke the skirt of a piston I planned to reuse... you won't care as you're replacing them anyway). The jackshaft slides out after removing the two screws and plate. Distributor and oil pump just unbolt and come off. The areas you want to protect from damage/metal to metal strikes are the cylinder walls and any bearing surfaces on the crank. At that point you're pretty close to disassembly being complete and a visit to the machine shop is next! Buy some Evaporust and soak the rust gears a day or so and they'll look great.

As I think about this, the main crank caps can be resistant, especially the rear main. Notice that it has a threaded hole in it. They make a puller (shown in the manual) but I've used a modified body work slide hammer in the past by literally TAPING a bolt with the correct thread size and pitch for that threaded hole to the end of the slide hammer and then using the slide weight to "tap" the cap up. If you look at the end of a slide hammer you will see it can give a solid enough way to help hold the bolt in place strongly enough to do this. I may be able to post a pic if needed, but it's pretty straight forward.

[Gregs672000]

After you get the crank etc out, post some pics of the rod and crank bearing shells so we can see how worn they are and look for any concerning damage.

[Tynan]

I have had the crankshaft and pulley off already to take timing cover off. the problem I'm having now is piston 4 and 1 are STUCK . Probably a rust ridge. Been soaking them and working them. Hopefully it won't be to long. Connection rod is hitting block. Patience is a virtue they say

[Gregs672000]

I'm a little confused... is the crank still in the engine as in the pics? You must have pushed the other pistons out the top of the block if that's the case. You can rotate the crank until the rods are straight up, then carefully tap the piston out the top with a wood drift and keeping the rod from hitting against the cylinder wall. The rod will never hit the block when attached to the crank.

Under normal circumstances you don't push the pistons out the top of the engine as there can be a ridge but it's really not a big deal at this point.

[Tynan]

I'm a little confused... is the crank still in the engine as in the pics? You must have pushed the other pistons out the top of the block if that's the case. You can rotate the crank until the rods are straight up, then carefully tap the piston out the top with a wood drift and keeping the rod from hitting against the cylinder wall. The rod will never hit the block when attached to the crank.

Under normal circumstances you don't push the pistons out the top of the engine as there can be a ridge but it's really not a big deal at this point.

She's seized at tdc

[Tynan]

I was able to move it an inch and give me enough clearance to push em out. Could the flywheel be seized? Causing it to be stuck. Even without pistons she's stuck stuck