Peggy: '69 2000 (Penny's sister) in Durango, CO - SRL31110613

[tig]

The PO sent me a copy of the invoice this morning from the shop that last did work on the car. Super interesting! Was 11/18/22:



I have not measured the draw on the starter myself, but now will. Seems to be working fine.

With plugs out the motor does feel tight during part of the rotation, but not horribly so. There may be something in there... Or, my adjusting the valves may have addressed this?

Even though spraying starter fluid didn't work, I had an intuition the problem was fuel, not spark. So I read up some more on the SUs and opened them up to inspect/clean. Nothing looked super-awry. Cleaned, added oil (Marvel Mystery as that was recommended by someone), and reassembled.































Removed choke cables again, so the choke is fully closed.

Opened up mixture screws a fair amount.

https://youtu.be/RoCWrjJwGgQ

I can repeatedly get it to start like this now. Note I have to open the throttle fully to do so...

Now what?

[Gregs672000]

As Mike mentioned, cleaning off the paint to just fill the grooves will make seeing things easier. Also, you do not have an EI distributor (modified 80's era Nissan Electronic Ignition that was adapted to our cars), and you're not likely to have had much experience with points. The "point" is basically an on/off switch that tells the coil to fire every time the points are opened by the (4) lobes spinning around. There is a specific gap for that opening so if that has been disturbed then it can be wrong. Instead of describing it here, I suggest a quick read of our online manual or your other Datsun books on how to check and/or adjust points gap (you set the distributor so the points are opening and check the gap with a feeler guage, adjusts with a slotted head screw). Also, the condenser on the side of the distributor can sometimes go bad and pull energy from the points so they don't work or work intermittently, so consider that as part of your troubleshooting (consider buying a tune up kit, or swap out one from one of the other cars, though unknown too. You'll eventually need the tune up kit anyway). Coil wiring looks a little suspect but I'm afraid I can't help you there (I no longer have a distributor) and others may need to chime in or post pics.

If it's not responding to starter fluid, then that suggests a spark issue to me... that stuff explodes easily. Given all that's been done, I'd consider swapping out plugs for new or known good and/or checking them for being fouled. As you noted, if spark is intermittent then that must be addressed... coil, wiring, points, condenser (BTW, don't leave the ignition switched "on" while the car is sitting etc as the points can begin to deteriorate... just something I remember from back in the day). You must have been/are getting SOME spark as the engine cannot even chug without it. I'd not worry too much about the carb chokes working right now as your primary "enrichment" is coming from the starter fluid... once running you'll likely be able to keep it chugging along with short shots of starter fluid... we can address the chokes later (of course you can observe if they are working by operating the choke linkage by hand... the "nozzle" will drop down and you will see the linkage ties to the throttle plates and opens them up slightly. Often the nozzle sticks and does not pop back up without fiddling with it). Also, carb adjustment isn't going to make a huge difference right now as you are supplying supplemental fuel for the engine (starter fluid) and it doesn't care so long as it has something to burn. It may not run well, but it should run. Again, we know nothing about the condition of the carbs... what parts may have been replaced, what's worn, what was installed correctly, if they were adjusted/balanced... but they will still allow air and fuel in in a more or less "organized" fashion. A quick look in the manual will show you how they work if it's unclear. Also, Keith is our resident SU expert and has put in some great tuning info in the tech wiki. The linkage can be confusing, so do look it over and note what does what. You have two throttle plates that adjust individually plus the linkage that ties the two together so they open at the exact same time and amount so they flow the same volume of air. Otherwise, half the engine will be running at a different speed (or at least trying to... so it rocks back and forth)! BTW, if you pull spark plugs note if there are any significant differences between group/plugs 1 and 2 vs 3 and 4 since one carb feeds 1 and 2 and the other feeds 3 and 4 (like 1/2 are black and 3/4 are white).

So, confirm consistent spark, do your best to set the initial timing, confirm firing order, confirm good spark plugs, then short bursts of starter fluid and it should fire up (and yes you can work the throttle by hand when using short bursts of fluid, but do be CAREFUL! Carbs can backfire and produce a flame or pop quite loudly!). Short 1 second bursts of fluid, not soaks.

We will hear it run!

[Gregs672000]

OK, so much new info since I wrote above... so it's running!? Awesome! That white crap on the fuel needle is corrosion and bad fuel, hopefully cleaned out now. Doubt that valve lash had anything to do with resistance. Sometimes the rope seal for the rear main on the crank can make them harder to turn until it's seen some miles. If it will run with you keeping the throttle open then it's likely an issue with linkage and overall carb adjustment and readings Keith's write up will help. Do compare the plug groups like I described above as that will tell you if both carbs are providing similar amounts of fuel vs one being plugged up, semi plugged or not adjusted the same (fuel amount is controlled by turning the knob on the bottom of the carb which raises or lowers the fuel nozzle off the needle which is tapered).

[Gregs672000]

I wonder about that shop...
Head gasket weeping... What? Coolant would be one thing, but oil is probably a valve/cam cover gasket. I think bad grounds can cause current draw problems but electric stuff is one of my weaknesses.

[speeder]

I dropped by Tig's shop today to have a look. He is making great progress on a cool car that will likely be driving again soon. It does appear to be intermittently sparking. Greg, your suggestion about the condenser malfunctioning and pulling charge from the points sounds like what might be happening here. We cleaned the points with a little sand paper, then wiped em with the paper side and fired the car up and it runs. After about a minute, it starts sputtering and then dies. In other words, sometimes it sparks well, sometimes not. I think a new condenser is in order to rule that out. In the old days, the mantra was replace it all- points, condenser, diz cap, rotor, plugs, etc. In this case it does appear to be upstream of the plugs, so somewhere between the ignition switch and the diz that is causing the problem.

When the car dies, we confirmed that there is no longer a spark at the plugs.

[Gregs672000]

Awesome guys! BTW, my engine is hard to rotate by hand as the cam works against the valve springs until it rolls past, then tightens again as I continue... pretty normal. Sounds like he may have scored a good motor! BTW, if it sputters and starts to die a short shot of starter fluid will tell you if it's fuel or spark... oh wait, read more closely and you confirmed no spark!

[tig]

I dropped by Tig's shop today to have a look. He is making great progress on a cool car that will likely be driving again soon. It does appear to be intermittently sparking. Greg, your suggestion about the condenser malfunctioning and pulling charge from the points sounds like what might be happening here. We cleaned the points with a little sand paper, then wiped em with the paper side and fired the car up and it runs. After about a minute, it starts sputtering and then dies. In other words, sometimes it sparks well, sometimes not. I think a new condenser is in order to rule that out. In the old days, the mantra was replace it all- points, condenser, diz cap, rotor, plugs, etc. In this case it does appear to be upstream of the plugs, so somewhere between the ignition switch and the diz that is causing the problem.

When the car dies, we confirmed that there is no longer a spark at the plugs.

Jon, you rock!!!!

https://youtu.be/RoCWrjJwGgQ

[tig]

My heater hoses are toast; seeping coolant. Particularly the lower one that I believe is the return line.

While I'm working on getting the car running, until the new hoses I've ordered come, any issue with just blocking the hose from the water pump that feeds the intake manifold/heater?

[tig]

My heater hoses are toast; seeping coolant. Particularly the lower one that I believe is the return line.

While I'm working on getting the car running, until the new hoses I've ordered come, any issue with just blocking the hose from the water pump that feeds the intake manifold/heater?

Answered my own question - I bought some hose and just made a loop. I need to source the correct (or a more correct) hose from the pump to the T as this one's not spring-reinforced like the OE one. But that hose was not long for this world.

The old braided hose literally disintegrated as I pulled it out.





I let her run long enough that the temp gauge should have shown movement. Nada. So I guess the temp sender is bad.

The good news is this car is running. Not well, but it'll run for minutes. I even put it into gear (it's on the lift about 6" up) and the clutch/gearbox feels great. Fun watching the speedo move .

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xA1aVbgoWUc[/youtube]

Here's what the plugs looked like after that. They're consistently rich



Also checked all electrics. Everything works (at least the obvious stuff, including instrument/dash lights) except:

- RHS blinker light on tach inop (tach needs replacing anyway)
- Blinker switch clicker is pretty quiet. I have same issue with my 911; wondering if new relays are available that are louder (they are for the Porsches).
- Low and High beams are meh. What you'd expect from a 55 year old car. Will investigate upgrades because that's no bueno.
- Wiper washer no spray and no pump noise. Where is the pump?
- Radio inop
- RHS license plate bulb inop





I am part-owner of www.holygraillabs.com. We're gonna make blade-fuse fusebox kits for these cars now. I'll start a separate thread to gauge interest and seek input on design ideas.

Battery tray is clearly missing parts. I can't see how it secures the battery. Hmm...



I'll have all new points, condenser, ballast, cap, rotor, and plug wires by tomorrow afternoon...

[Gregs672000]

Woo Hoo! Glad to hear... you've been busy! At least the plugs are consistent! Folks with more experience and expertise with SUs can likely help you better than I. Regarding the temp guage, first test the dash unit by disconnecting the sensor wire and grounding it... it should read full hot (key on). If it does, then the problem is the sender or more likely the ground for the sensor. The sensor grounds through a metal tang that's integral to the stock gaskets used to house the thermostat (kind of a dumb design, but it works), and often folks who don't know this and use a non stock gasket and/or use gasket sealer on the gasket that blocks the metal tang from making contact. No ground, no work. Before you disassemble the whole thing, you can wrap and secure a section of stripped copper wire around the HOUSING that the sensor slides into (has a hex head) and connect the other end of the wire to one of the thermostat housing studs/nuts to ground it. I can send a pic if needed as this is how mine is set up, but it might be Sunday before I can. I use a very thin zip tie to secure the copper wire around the housing.

[tig]

Regarding the temp guage...

Good stuff, thanks. BTW, what EFI do you run in your roadster? You've mentioned several times you use EFI.

[Stick]

Great attack on this thing to get it running … Just as impressive is the help from the community.

Tig, you’re going to have a great car in the end.. following this journey!

[Gregs672000]

Regarding the temp guage...

Good stuff, thanks. BTW, what EFI do you run in your roadster? You've mentioned several times you use EFI.

I converted from 45mm Dellorto (and numerous other!) DHLA carbs to Jenvey Heritage 40mm "Weber look alike" TBs (on a Solex manifold of course) and had already converted to a Ford EDIS crank-fired ignition system previously, all now controlled by a Microsquirt V3 (a simple and comparatively inexpensive controller, but I don't need much!). Love it. Tuned using TunerStudio and Megalogviewer. It's documented under Jenvey Heritage EFI topic header I think... been a while since I updated it. I'm currently conversing with a couple other members who are working on EFI for their R16 cars, and my Canadian friend and instigator Daryl continues to develop his system for his modified R motors (using an older version of Megasquirt).

I took a look at your other rides and realized you have been around with us for some time, and have a lot of tinkering experience! And you used to be Local! You mentioned having a bad memory ealier... ya, mines not so great sometimes either!

[nismou20]

May I suggest BPR6ES as your next set of plugs.

[tig]

May I suggest BPR6ES as your next set of plugs.

I'd appreciate more context and justification. Thanks.