More 4 speed transmission help

[jrusso07]

I have torn apart two transmissions and I am ready to rebuild into one with the best parts.

Both transmissions are servo, one has the half-moon counter shaft that is damaged. The other has a warner counter shaft (with the split pin). The warner counter shaft has the 42 individual needles, and it is in good condition. I was a bit surprised to find it in a servo box?

Questions

1) Can I use the caged roller bearings on the warner split pin counter shaft?

2)What is the proper sequence for installing the loose needles into the cluster gear? I was thinking you apply tacky grease to the inside of the cluster gear where the needles sit, put in the inside shim, line up the needles in/around the cavity, put the outer shim ring. Install the shaft and check for clean rotation. Remove the shaft and install the cluster gear into the case by pushing countershaft through the case from the front bell housing (split pin in bell housing)

3) I assume the warner counter shaft is fine to use with the servo gears - any issues with doing so? It was in the replacement transmission that I obtained. I never ran the replacement as it was given to me by a friend.

Thanks in advance

[23yrRebuild]

The Datsun Roadster Catalog, published by Dann at Rallye Roadster, that I've had since 1983, has awesome pics and diagrams. On page 155-156, the diagram shows the Fig. # 8 as countershaft bearing shim, and goes into both ends of the 1600 4-speed countershaft FIRST,...and then either the caged bearings, or the loose, needle bearings, next....I don't know if what goes first, matters, but that's the example I followed when I rebuilt mine.

The Datsun Roadster Book Part I, by Scott Scheeler, also has a similar diagram, on page 218, fig. # 33, (servo) and fig. #85 (warner), both called out as Spacers, showing the same order.

As far as if the caged bearings themselves are interchangeable with the needle bearings, I can't seem to find any reference anywhere, that says one way, or the other.
These publications have copyrights, so I can't share this info directly from these sources, I would HIGHLY recommend these references for any roadster owner doing their own work, or to insure that someone else may be doing the work correctly....These are priceless investments, as is the Clymer FSM...
IMHO, of course
Mike

[jrusso07]

Thanks Mike, I will have to dig out my Rallye catalog insert. I also have a 1983 addition. I didn't think about looking there. I can't find any interchangeability of needle bearing. Vendor sites specify "Correct for Warner" or "Correct for Servo". I am not really interested in historical correctness but only want the transmission to be reliable!

I am going to use the old loose needles and the thrust washers from the good servo box (with the warner countershaft). I did find there are 4 ring shims on the loose needle bearing one inside, one outside (a set of 2 at each end). The inside ones were stuck in the cluster gear...I found them after writing the post.

[JT68]

The loose needles go with the warner-type ("roll-pin") shaft only I'm nearly certain.

Going from memory, the later "roll pin" shaft is also a larger diameter shaft. So I'm almost certain the individual needle bearing are only used with that one.

Yes, there were servo transmissions that had the later roll pin shaft and individual needles, I'm sure of that. The earlier shaft always used the caged bearings IIRC.

It will be reliable for a while, but it's fundamentally a bad design, so you can count on replacing the counter gear shaft again at some point. (Hopefully before the counter gear detonates)

[jrusso07]

Thanks JT!

[Datrock]

Joe, as mentioned above, check the transmission cases too since the counter shaft holes in the transmission cases are different sizes between the two types of counter shafts that were used, might be only 1mm difference.

[jrusso07]

thanks Bill, I will measure them and document here

[jrusso07]

The Warner countershaft is 17mm, the Servo is 16mm. Hard to distinguish without measuring!

Plan is to use the replacement transmission gear train and case (that uses warner countershaft with loose needle bearings).