Could use some help troubleshooting

[GeoffM]

Hi everyone,
I’m a bit stumped, for now, and I was hoping I could get some advice in case I’m missing something obvious.
R16 engine.
I had the battery on the tender for a good week and the charge light never indicated a full charge. When I went to turn it over, all I got was the solenoid/TO bearing clicking into place so it was obviously the battery right? The thing is, I’ve replaced the battery with a new, fully charged unit, and I get the same thing. I tried to jump it and still it won’t turn over, just one single click of the solenoid per turn of the key.

The starter is maybe 4 years old and only gets used maybe 50 times a season (sad I know). All grounds are intact and I have a ground strap to the frame.

Could a failing ignition switch cause these systems? One click and no turnover?

One other thing, and I hope it’s nothing, is that during my starting attempts, I thought to myself “ self, could my engine be seized??” I mean, it ran fine a month ago when I drove it so I couldn’t see how or why BUT…
My driveway is at a bit of an incline and when I had it in reverse and let it roll backwards a bit, if I released the clutch it would stop as if it was an automatic in park. The engine would torque over on its mounts but the fan didn’t move at all.
I tried turning the engine by hand (with the plugs in mind you) but the crank nut wouldn’t move.

I’ll investigate further with the plugs out, but I’m hoping it’s something electrical. I’m discounting a bad starter because of how new it is but who knows.

Any advice is appreciated.

[Nissanman]

Sounds like something is well and truly jammed up.
If you can't turn the engine over at all, you need to do some disassembly.
I'd start by taking off the starter to see if it is meshed with the ring gear.
You could then bench test the starter to see if it is OK and to eliminate that as the problem.

[keith0alan]

If you can't turn the engine over by hand it is not an electrical problem. Pull the spark plugs. You may find a cylinder full of water.

[GeoffM]

Sounds like something is well and truly jammed up.
If you can't turn the engine over at all, you need to do some disassembly.
I'd start by taking off the starter to see if it is meshed with the ring gear.
You could then bench test the starter to see if it is OK and to eliminate that as the problem.

Yeah, seems like it. I’m going to pull the plugs and see if it turns.

[GeoffM]

If you can't turn the engine over by hand it is not an electrical problem. Pull the spark plugs. You may find a cylinder full of water.

The coolant tower level was down about an inch, which seems kinda normal but we will see soon. Thanks.

[GeoffM]

Ok, so here’s one from the truly bizarre file…
I pulled the spark plugs and I didn’t find any hydro locked cylinders or anything out of the ordinary.
The engine still will not turn by hand or by starter. It’s completely jammed. Did I mention that it ran great and I parked it under its own power the last time I drove it? No concerns at all. The car rolls with the clutch in/neutral.

I pulled the cover to see if I could see anything obvious in the top end. What I did find, is that #3 Intake is well into the intake stroke, bit most other rockers are filly closed, as in, I can feel play when I rattle them. Other than #3 intake, #4 exhaust is tight but not depressed….

This is so out of left field. As a person who is very comfortable about failure modes of mechanical things…I’m quite shocked.

I guess next step is a full tear down….

Please feel free to commiserate and /or share any theories no matter how bizarre.

[DAC21]

Ok, so here’s one from the truly bizarre file…
I pulled the spark plugs and I didn’t find any hydro locked cylinders or anything out of the ordinary.
The engine still will not turn by hand or by starter. It’s completely jammed. Did I mention that it ran great and I parked it under its own power the last time I drove it? No concerns at all. The car rolls with the clutch in/neutral.

I pulled the cover to see if I could see anything obvious in the top end. What I did find, is that #3 Intake is well into the intake stroke, bit most other rockers are filly closed, as in, I can feel play when I rattle them. Other than #3 intake, #4 exhaust is tight but not depressed….

This is so out of left field. As a person who is very comfortable about failure modes of mechanical things…I’m quite shocked.

I guess next step is a full tear down….

Please feel free to commiserate and /or share any theories no matter how bizarre.

I don't know squat, but for $hit and giggles maybe pull the timing cover and see if anything is binding up.

[redroadster]

Put it in 4th gear after squirting a can of penatrating oil in the cyls then rock the car and engine back and forth gently it may break loose
If it's still locked solid , probably best to pull the head and or assy.

[GeoffM]

Put it in 4th gear after squirting a can of penatrating oil in the cyls then rock the car and engine back and forth gently it may break loose
If it's still locked solid , probably best to pull the head and or assy.

Thanks, I’ll try it. Although, like I say, it ran fine a few weeks ago

[JT68]

If it is seized, trying to break it loose by force (giant wrench/starter/rocking in gear etc) will just probably cause additional damage. If you can't turn it over in neutral with very little effort using a 12" wrench and the plugs out, something is wrong. Doesn't really matter if it ran fine before. If you remove the head, the lower end should turn very easily by hand.

[GeoffM]

If it is seized, trying to break it loose by force (giant wrench/starter/rocking in gear etc) will just probably cause additional damage. If you can't turn it over in neutral with very little effort using a 12" wrench and the plugs out, something is wrong. Doesn't really matter if it ran fine before. If you remove the head, the lower end should turn very easily by hand.

I think that’s the best course of action. Although, one way or another, if it’s a dropped valve or something, I’ll end up pulling the whole engine anyway.

The last thing I’ll check, just to remove all variables, is to reach in and feel if the starter gear is somehow jammed in the flywheel gear.

[GeoffM]

I don't know squat, but for $hit and giggles maybe pull the timing cover and see if anything is binding up.

I’d be far enough into it that I would probably just pull it and disassemble

[Gregs672000]

So it will not move in either direction AT ALL? There are not many things that could cause that... seized bearing; seized rings; what else? I'd start removing ancillary items... fuel pump, distributor and gears, starter for sure. If it were something like piston to valve contact it would move backwards. There's NO movement? It doesn't make sense that it seized... that takes heat, loss of oil, not usually after running just fine. Starter is a very good place to start.

[GeoffM]

So it will not move in either direction AT ALL? There are not many things that could cause that... seized bearing; seized rings; what else? I'd start removing ancillary items... fuel pump, distributor and gears, starter for sure. If it were something like piston to valve contact it would move backwards. There's NO movement? It doesn't make sense that it seized... that takes heat, loss of oil, not usually after running just fine. Starter is a very good place to start.

It’s the strangest thing Greg. I’m continuing the CSI on this thing….can’t wait to find the root cause!

[redroadster]

If it is seized, trying to break it loose by force (giant wrench/starter/rocking in gear etc) will just probably cause additional damage. If you can't turn it over in neutral with very little effort using a 12" wrench and the plugs out, something is wrong. Doesn't really matter if it ran fine before. If you remove the head, the lower end should turn very easily by hand.

I think that’s the best course of action. Although, one way or another, if it’s a dropped valve or something, I’ll end up pulling the whole engine anyway.

The last thing I’ll check, just to remove all variables, is to reach in and feel if the starter gear is somehow jammed in the flywheel gear.

Yes gently ...it's likely a spun tight bearing , if it's siezed/ locked cond. Crank internal cam oil is not filtered on most engines a flake of cast iron goes thru it and it's toast
Pull the valve cover to check