Brake Bleed problem
Moderators: notoptoy, S Allen, Solex68
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- Roadster Nut
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:36 pm
- Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
- Model: 2000
- Year: High Windshield-68-70
Brake Bleed problem
Hi all, I have a 69' 2000 Roadster with the Volvo front brake conversion. Due to some leaking I decided change out existing calipers for a new set. No matter what I try I can not get the pedal back, the first push goes to the floor. If I pump it fast I can get a pretty decent pedal but I lose it as soon as I release the pressure on the pedal.
So far I have pressure bleed, vacuum bleed and the go old fashion two person method but still the same; no pedal. After 2 liters of fluid thru the system I am at wit's end.
In frustration I tried the pedal with the pressure bleeder on the front and I had a decent pedal! Any idea what is going on or anything else to try?
So far I have pressure bleed, vacuum bleed and the go old fashion two person method but still the same; no pedal. After 2 liters of fluid thru the system I am at wit's end.
In frustration I tried the pedal with the pressure bleeder on the front and I had a decent pedal! Any idea what is going on or anything else to try?
69' Silver 2000
- notoptoy
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Re: Brake Bleed problem
Bleed the master cylinder first.
"When all else fails, force prevails!" Ummm, we're gonna need a bigger hammer here.
67.5 SPL311 H20 w/5 speed
65 Impala Convertible
2017 C43 AMG
67.5 SPL311 H20 w/5 speed
65 Impala Convertible
2017 C43 AMG
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- Roadster Nut
- Posts: 28
- Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2016 9:36 pm
- Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
- Model: 2000
- Year: High Windshield-68-70
Re: Brake Bleed problem
I did bleed the master cylinder using the bleed ports in the side. I did not remove the master cylinder and bench bleed it.notoptoy wrote:Bleed the master cylinder first.
69' Silver 2000
- msampsel
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Re: Brake Bleed problem
Is the master new? Maybe the new install has caused a weak master to fail.
Really just tossing out an idea.
Really just tossing out an idea.
67 1600 (Mods only a mother could love)
78 911 SC Targa (Severe Oversteer but still loved)
78 911 SC Targa (Severe Oversteer but still loved)
- jheck
- Roadster Fanatic
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Re: Brake Bleed problem
I was having trouble getting my brake master to bleed. I ended up get a vacuum bleeder and it pulled all the air out.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NP ... UTF8&psc=1
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00NP ... UTF8&psc=1
Jason
1970 1600
Bluegrass country, KY
1970 1600
Bluegrass country, KY
- AidanDawn2000
- Roadsteraholic
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Re: Brake Bleed problem
Make sure your rear shoes aren't too far away from the drums and equivalent for the front.
Oil a little low? Time to get a longer dipstick:)
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1968 2000 SRL311-05110 (first car! Rust Bucket. Sold )
1969 2000 SRL311-10440 (matching numbers, Solex!)
Instagram!!!
1968 2000 SRL311-05110 (first car! Rust Bucket. Sold )
1969 2000 SRL311-10440 (matching numbers, Solex!)
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- Roadster Fanatic-Site Supporter
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Re: Brake Bleed problem
How are your feeding the caliper cylinders? Do you have a block to feed the fluid to both ports on the caliper? Two lines? Cross drilled?
Sounds like you have air trapped in one cylinder of the caliper.
Dan
Sounds like you have air trapped in one cylinder of the caliper.
Dan
SPL311 aka Skooter. Sold. Now wasting away in the SF area.
1990 Nissan 300zx. Sold this one too.
2018 VW Tiguan
1990 Nissan 300zx. Sold this one too.
2018 VW Tiguan
- jrusso07
- Roadsteraholic
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Re: Brake Bleed problem
Three thoughts/guesses
1) Rubber hose may be expanding under the pressure due to age. Had that happen on my clutch hose. Not sure if you replaced brake hoses.
2) Air in line or calipers...try gravity bleeding by opening bleeder and let fluid run out....keep filling master...run alot of fluid until you are sure you get no bubbling. Do all 4 brakes. Dont use pedal. Then pressure bleed all 4 starting with right rear. Look for leaks on the lines as you gravity bleed.
I had a bleeder screw the would not seat properly...look of leaks at the bleeder threads.
3) There is a leak somewhere
1) Rubber hose may be expanding under the pressure due to age. Had that happen on my clutch hose. Not sure if you replaced brake hoses.
2) Air in line or calipers...try gravity bleeding by opening bleeder and let fluid run out....keep filling master...run alot of fluid until you are sure you get no bubbling. Do all 4 brakes. Dont use pedal. Then pressure bleed all 4 starting with right rear. Look for leaks on the lines as you gravity bleed.
I had a bleeder screw the would not seat properly...look of leaks at the bleeder threads.
3) There is a leak somewhere
Joe
1969 SRL311 - Solex
1970 SPL311 - U20 mod
1970 SRL311
1969 SRL311 - Solex
1970 SPL311 - U20 mod
1970 SRL311
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- Roadster Nut
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- Year: High Windshield-68-70
Re: Brake Bleed problem
All good suggestions, thanks.
To recap:
I started by replacing the rear wheel cylinders and shoes; power bleed the system but the pedal went to the floor due to a leak at i bad fitting , fixed that and got a very good pedal after power bleeding again and adjusting the rears.
After bleeding and taking it for a ride I noticed some of the front bleed screws had been leaking for some time so I decided to replace the calipers. This has the Volvo conversion that uses a "T" fitting to split the single hose (stainless, so no rubber hose) when I pulled the line from the Tee I quickly plugged it so there was very little fluid loss.
The only thing I haven't tried is gravity bleeding.
Yesterday I pulled the rubber boot off the back of the master and I can see that it has had a small leak for a long time as it was packed with " yellow gunk". Next Step for me is to order a new Master.
Because the pedal went to the floor when I had the leak at the rear fitting One thing has been puzzing me; is it possible that the brake monitor switch is leaking internally and causingthe split system to "merge" and act like a single system?
To recap:
I started by replacing the rear wheel cylinders and shoes; power bleed the system but the pedal went to the floor due to a leak at i bad fitting , fixed that and got a very good pedal after power bleeding again and adjusting the rears.
After bleeding and taking it for a ride I noticed some of the front bleed screws had been leaking for some time so I decided to replace the calipers. This has the Volvo conversion that uses a "T" fitting to split the single hose (stainless, so no rubber hose) when I pulled the line from the Tee I quickly plugged it so there was very little fluid loss.
The only thing I haven't tried is gravity bleeding.
Yesterday I pulled the rubber boot off the back of the master and I can see that it has had a small leak for a long time as it was packed with " yellow gunk". Next Step for me is to order a new Master.
Because the pedal went to the floor when I had the leak at the rear fitting One thing has been puzzing me; is it possible that the brake monitor switch is leaking internally and causingthe split system to "merge" and act like a single system?
69' Silver 2000
- GeoffM
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Re: Brake Bleed problem
The Volvo calipers usually have more than one bleeder screw...are you sure you have all the pockets of air, especially in the upper portion of the caliper, bled?
Geoff
1969 SPL-311
1969 SPL-311
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- Roadster Nut
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- Year: High Windshield-68-70
Re: Brake Bleed problem
Update:
I got the new master cylinder in UPS today, spent about and hour bench bleeding it until it was perfect, installed it on the car, power bled the front and back and still no pedal!!!!!
I am at my wits end. I think it is time to admit the brakes are smarter than me and put the car on eBay. I will take my lumps but I need to move on.
I got the new master cylinder in UPS today, spent about and hour bench bleeding it until it was perfect, installed it on the car, power bled the front and back and still no pedal!!!!!
I am at my wits end. I think it is time to admit the brakes are smarter than me and put the car on eBay. I will take my lumps but I need to move on.
69' Silver 2000
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Re: Brake Bleed problem
Obviously, there's something very wrong here.
When you power bleed the fromt calipers, are you getting fluid from them? I think there are two bleed fittings on the calipers...are you bleeding both until no bubbles? This may be of no help but before you throw in the towell and take a beating, here's what I did.
The '69 1600 has a similar brake setup. Stock drums on the rear, Volvo 240 calipers with the stock Datsun rotor turned down slightly on the front. I have braided lines n the front with the factory dual master cylinder.
I researched online and determined I'd cross drill the Volvo calipers so that the brake line would connect to one "pot" on the caliper. The fluid feeds thru the cross drill to the second "pot". The second pot "feet" port is plugged. No second feed line or fitting is used. The line runs straight into a banjo fitting on each caliper.
FWIW, I've had no trouble with the brakes, in fact the pedal is very firm (probably due to the braided stainless line) and will stop the car very qujickly.
Perhaps a process of elimination to pinpoint the problem would help. Why not pull both the front brake lines (one at a time) and cap them to see if you can get pedal. That should tell you if it's in the calipers, or farther back in the system. Maybe even pull the feed line from the master and see if you have pedal. If you work thru the system, a component at a time, starting at either end, you should be able to find it.
Dan
Dan
When you power bleed the fromt calipers, are you getting fluid from them? I think there are two bleed fittings on the calipers...are you bleeding both until no bubbles? This may be of no help but before you throw in the towell and take a beating, here's what I did.
The '69 1600 has a similar brake setup. Stock drums on the rear, Volvo 240 calipers with the stock Datsun rotor turned down slightly on the front. I have braided lines n the front with the factory dual master cylinder.
I researched online and determined I'd cross drill the Volvo calipers so that the brake line would connect to one "pot" on the caliper. The fluid feeds thru the cross drill to the second "pot". The second pot "feet" port is plugged. No second feed line or fitting is used. The line runs straight into a banjo fitting on each caliper.
FWIW, I've had no trouble with the brakes, in fact the pedal is very firm (probably due to the braided stainless line) and will stop the car very qujickly.
Perhaps a process of elimination to pinpoint the problem would help. Why not pull both the front brake lines (one at a time) and cap them to see if you can get pedal. That should tell you if it's in the calipers, or farther back in the system. Maybe even pull the feed line from the master and see if you have pedal. If you work thru the system, a component at a time, starting at either end, you should be able to find it.
Dan
Dan
SPL311 aka Skooter. Sold. Now wasting away in the SF area.
1990 Nissan 300zx. Sold this one too.
2018 VW Tiguan
1990 Nissan 300zx. Sold this one too.
2018 VW Tiguan
- Linda
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Re: Brake Bleed problem
Speed bleeders? They work great.
Linda
Linda
Sadly-Linda has passed away 2022. She was the 311's den mother and drove the first Rare-Parts ball joint project. RIP.
- msampsel
- Roadster Nut-Site Supporter
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Re: Brake Bleed problem
Some good ideas Dan
67 1600 (Mods only a mother could love)
78 911 SC Targa (Severe Oversteer but still loved)
78 911 SC Targa (Severe Oversteer but still loved)
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- Roadster Nut
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- Model: 2000
- Year: High Windshield-68-70
Re: Brake Bleed problem
Update: 7/8/16 - I have determined that the problem is with the left front caliper.
I plugged the line coming from the master cylinder to the front brake port on the distribution block and I got a decent pedal. I then worked my way back to the left front caliper, cracking and plugging at every joint. I would get a good pedal at every joint, right up to the connection to the caliper. As soon as I hooked the hose to the caliper the pedal would go to the floor. Pull the hose and cap it and I would have good pedal again..
I have put a at least a quart through this caliper by pressure bleeding, manual bleeding and vacuum bleeding. Is it possible I got a bad rebuilt caliper?
I plugged the line coming from the master cylinder to the front brake port on the distribution block and I got a decent pedal. I then worked my way back to the left front caliper, cracking and plugging at every joint. I would get a good pedal at every joint, right up to the connection to the caliper. As soon as I hooked the hose to the caliper the pedal would go to the floor. Pull the hose and cap it and I would have good pedal again..
I have put a at least a quart through this caliper by pressure bleeding, manual bleeding and vacuum bleeding. Is it possible I got a bad rebuilt caliper?
69' Silver 2000