Price Appreciation

[Linda]

Don't worry this topic will be back around again.

Linda

[datsun1500]

I'm pretty sure most people get what you are saying, and many agree. The Datsuns are undervalued sometimes. I guess what a lot of us don't get is what exactly we "need" to do to change it?

I'm pretty sure everyone here talks about how great these cars are, encourages people to buy them, and spends money keeping them around. What are we not doing correctly?

[Gregs672000]

I love my car. All that matters to me.

[spl310]

I think we need to explore the big girls/petite girls thing. Alvin, have you got pics for us showing big girls and petite girls with Roadsters? And to make it equal time, big guys and petite guys with Roadsters for those that don't want to look at girls...

[Datsun.David]

Bob -

I am with you. Obviously Roadster ownership is a visceral thing that makes us owners act irrationally - Foglights are not and never were worth $1600...- Doesn't mean I don't want them.

Ironically, I think Bob's point is exemplified by the consternation this thread has generated. I don't think Bob is saying anything other than - if we the owners and enthusiasts don't back up the enthusiasm we have for these cars with a willingness to pay high dollar for them, the rest of the market isn't going to pay high dollar for them either, as we, the enthusiasts, represent the bulk of both the supply and demand side of the supply vs demand equation. This obviously creates a bit of a conundrum, because while we would like our cars to appreciate (whether we intend to sell them or not) we don't want them to appreciate because we don't want to have to pay for it.

Bob's timing is interesting because examples of record setting pricing on roadster sales is coinciding with sort of a new "renaissance" for the roadster - swappers and purists living in harmony - and a broader awareness of our cars in general. Scott's Roadster Roadtrip, the Amelia Island Sale, the Re-intro of Datsun as a brand (even if not in North America) are all things which raise the public awareness and create new enthusiasts, and ultimately will likely put further upward pressure on price. Upward pressure is going to come from outside the circle of existing enthusiasts as the new purchasers look at the roadsters relative to the other vehicles in our peer group - everything from Alfas to Z's. (Like how I did that?) We as enthusiasts on the other hand base our perception of value on the last deal scored by one of our buddies on 311's.

The great part of this is that with the upward pressure on price, we get additional interest from vendors and more great jewelry to personalize our roadsters.

And if you don't love both Petite girls and Big girls, each for their own merits - perhaps you are missing out on more that life has to offer...

[Howard R]

Speaking of girls with roadsters, Here's a photo from the JCCS a few years ago. I think this girl was posing for a car mag and they sent me the photo. Please, no comments regarding my rear view mirror.

[FairladySPL]

David,

There’s an old saying: “Pull up the ladder, I’m aboard,” that illustrates a certain self-centered perspective relevant to the discussion of market value here.

Those who already own a 311 may wish to see market prices skyrocket to help validate the money they may have spent restoring. They don’t care that such prices could dissuade others from buying into an example of our car.

I would like to be able to continue bringing my friends into 311 ownership as a friendly, welcoming place without a lot of ego, judgment or the need to impress through great expenditure.

These cars exist on their own merit. Prices will continue to rise as they get discovered through all the means we have cited in this thread.

Look at some of the other car clubs and their membership and you can see a continuum. At one end, big-money cars trailered to shows, with snobby investment-grade owners holding the keys.

Somewhere toward the other end of that continuum, we are at a preferable spot. Our cars carry a lot of worth, pretty much all of us would agree, and the worth is not measured, necessarily, by a dollar sign on transactions.

Bob failed to establish that there is a deficit of advocacy among owners of our car, yet has repeatedly called for more of such advocacy. We challenged his premise, multiple times, and when backed into a corner he simply declined to respond.

He since has tried to tidy up the un-met questions we have raised by saying that’s what he intended to do, thanks for playing. oh, look, there’s the door. I find that a bit specious, and clearly he has lost control of his thread since our conversation now continues after he has left the room.

You opened your post with a faulty construct similar to Bob’s -- the “If we don’t do this, then this could happen.” We are doing that which you propose. Is it not true that the value-added cost of repairing, restoring and maintaining our cars counts as paying high dollar? When we spend a lot of money here, we are more committed to our cars before they achieve parity in the marketplace than if we could rely on being able to make our money back with a sale.

There’s a Big Picture that Bob, yourself, and all of us are part of. We play an influential role, but it is not the only factor at play in market valuation.

Many of us can cite years of doing just what you suggest, and it has had a measurable impact on market valuation. Other substantial factors are well beyond our control.

Regards

Bob -

I am with you. Obviously Roadster ownership is a visceral thing that makes us owners act irrationally - Foglights are not and never were worth $1600...- Doesn't mean I don't want them.

Ironically, I think Bob's point is exemplified by the consternation this thread has generated. I don't think Bob is saying anything other than - if we the owners and enthusiasts don't back up the enthusiasm we have for these cars with a willingness to pay high dollar for them, the rest of the market isn't going to pay high dollar for them either, as we, the enthusiasts, represent the bulk of both the supply and demand side of the supply vs demand equation. This obviously creates a bit of a conundrum, because while we would like our cars to appreciate (whether we intend to sell them or not) we don't want them to appreciate because we don't want to have to pay for it.

Bob's timing is interesting because examples of record setting pricing on roadster sales is coinciding with sort of a new "renaissance" for the roadster - swappers and purists living in harmony - and a broader awareness of our cars in general. Scott's Roadster Roadtrip, the Amelia Island Sale, the Re-intro of Datsun as a brand (even if not in North America) are all things which raise the public awareness and create new enthusiasts, and ultimately will likely put further upward pressure on price. Upward pressure is going to come from outside the circle of existing enthusiasts as the new purchasers look at the roadsters relative to the other vehicles in our peer group - everything from Alfas to Z's. (Like how I did that?) We as enthusiasts on the other hand base our perception of value on the last deal scored by one of our buddies on 311's.

The great part of this is that with the upward pressure on price, we get additional interest from vendors and more great jewelry to personalize our roadsters.

And if you don't love both Petite girls and Big girls, each for their own merits - perhaps you are missing out on more that life has to offer...

[Gregs672000]

Hi. I love my car. That's about all I can handle today as people are dying here a work. Literally. I love my car. You all enjoy them for what ever it is you want to enjoy for what ever reasons you have. After that, you will die, and you won't care what it is worth or how much you spent or didn't spend, only what its worth was to you and perhaps the family members and friends who joined you in this Datsun Roadster Love. It's just a car that is only really worth what it is to the person who owns it, for what ever reason that is/was. Life is too short to get too wrapped up in this stuff (though sometimes I still do! Ah, I'm human...).

[Roman]

Everyone wants their car to be worth more.....but no one wants to pay more for one.

Me? I just like the cars.

[jrusso07]

Everyone wants their car to be worth more.....but no one wants to pay more for one.

Me? I just like the cars.

I like cars too, and the smell of gas and oil, the sound a U20 makes out the exhaust at 4000 rpms,and big girls and petite girls...did anyone mention scotch? I like that too

[GeoffM]

Mods please change the thread title to "The Existential Datsun Owners Lounge"

A couple of things I've been thinking about while keeping tabs on this discussion:
- I feel a lot better putting $600 ball joints on a $10k car than a $5k car
- Owners play a small role in "setting the value" of their cars. It's more of an external market force with many factors that we don't control. I believe we are seeing these factors producing some upward valuation
- Higher values will probably produce better quality modified AND original cars. You don't see many rat-rod TR4's, for example.
- From my experience, car enthusiast people are some of the most down to earth, nicest people around...regardless of which snack bracket we're talking about. Well....maybe exclude the concourse Corvette guys....they're insufferable.
- Datsun1500's avatar is an obvious lie apparently.

[spl310]

Hmmm... Ratrod TR4s you say... I wonder whatever happened to FairBitch. Does anyone remember that car?

[Datsun.David]

Primer black... Slammed with cadillac taillights... I think... A beauty in her own right.

Paul - I believe that Bob's primary statement was intended as a positive rallying point to try and drive discussion and ultimately encourage Roadster owners to get out and say great things about their cars. I think that there has been a lot read into his tone by some who feel that he was scolding them for talking down roadsters. As I have often said to the fairer set - if I say something that can be taken one of two ways, and one of those ways pisses you off - I meant the other. Intonation and inflection are lost in text. Anyhow, I think Bob's comments were a reflection of his recent acquisition and corresponding enthusiasm coupled with a realization that nobody knows these cars exist... (This is hyperbole - some people know they exist but not as many as we would like...).

And don't call my construct faulty. I stand by it when the sentence is read in it's entirety. I don't thnk your crit stands when the whole statement is considered - that is not however a challenge for you to re-address it. I agree with the premise that those putting money in over time are committed. And some deserve to be...

Honestly, I think Bob "losing control of his thread" has more to do with those who have gotten almost vexatious and clearly un-roadsterlike with there response to his assertions - annoying though some of them may have been. However, when a guy is getting rundown for attempting to rouse positive energy, I stand with him. I respect him electing to try and diffuse the onslaught. Something I was trying to likewise do - my tone was intended to be more inclusive. Perhaps I should have used emoticons.

And this thread needs more pics of roadsters like Geoff's - and Geoff - your comment here was awesome.

[ted heaton]

Just for Sid.

BIG guy and BIG girl roadster picture.

Ted.

[jrusso07]

I try are make decisions on data...with data, there is little need for intonation and therefore low risk of misinterpretation.

Here is what Hagerty has to say on a 69 2000 valuation

http://www.hagerty.com/valuationtools/H ... vc=1328804" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;