New guy-over heating Florida

[zippy67roadster]

Well guys, after weeks of working on it, I'm still having overheating problems! I'm running the original fan direct, I eliminated the clutch fan. Had the radiator recored. Flushed out the whole system, including the heater core. I borrowed a good pressure tester from Auto Zone, pumped it up, it held 7 lbs pressure overnight (12 hours!). Put in new 180 degree thermostat (could not find a 160 that fit). I put on a new fan belt and made sure its nice and tight. At first I tried running just straight water since I wanted to make sure I didn't have any leaks and I didn't want to waste antifreeze since its now $11 a gallon. It seemed to run fine and did not overheat. But then after a few people told me it would ruin my water pump bearings to run straight water, I drained the radiator and added 50/50 coolant. NOW IT IS OVERHEATING AGAIN!!! DAMN! I CAN'T FIGURE IT OUT! I can only drive it for about 15 minutes and then it gets up to around 200 degrees! I'm wondering if it could be the timing? It doesn't overheat if I stay at low speeds (under 50mph) but, if I push it to 65mph or more, it overheats quickly. The engine "pings" a lot when I accelerate hard and "diesels" when I go to shut it off. Does that mean the timing is off? If so, what is the timing supposed to be set at and is there a way I can aproximate since I don't have a timing light?

You can get a 160 thermostat at Roackauto.com.

[Gregs672000]

Sorry to hear you are still experiencing problems!!! Run on and knocking are symptoms of being too lean, which will also cause overheating if extreme. What color are your plugs? White is too lean; black is too rich. Pls report back.

Regarding timing, it depends on what distributor curve is in it. An early non-smog distributor (pre '68) was set at 17 (as I recall) while a smog ('68 and beyond) was set at zero as all the advance was built in. You may have to carefully remove the top plate (with points, and be careful to not drop in any nuts) and read the numbers on the sloted upside down T shaped piece: 7.5 is a non-smog; anything else is smog. You can static time the motor in the following manner ONCE YOU DETERMINE WHAT DISTRIBUTOR CURVE YOU HAVE. Note the location of plug wire number 1 (piston closest to rad) on the distributor, remove the cap, pull the plugs, rotate the engine until the crank mark is correct, either the zero for a smog distributor (left most notch on the pully) or between the last two to the right (each mark is 5 degrees) for non-smog. MAKE SURE THAT THE ROTOR IS CLOSE TO NUMBER ONE IF YOU WERE TO PUT THE CAP BACK ON; IF NOT, YOU NEED TO ROTATE THE ENGINE A FULL TURN, AND IT SHOULD BE CLOSE THEN (engine rotates around twice for each distributor rotation). Once you have the crank pully aligned properly on the correct timing mark, loosen the screw on the distributor and rotate it until it the points are openning, then lock it down. You have now static timed the motor, and it should be close. You can play with it some if needed once it is running. If it knocks, then back it off just a tad. If you are not able to get enough rotation as you turn the distributor let us know as there are additional things that need to happen to get it right.

If you find no problems there, then we need to continue to examine head gaskets, carb issues and such. Hang in there... we'll get it figured out.

[notoptoy]

The drain and refill causing a problem does seem to indicate a bubble was probably introduced, so I'd look at burping it again.

You can guesstimatet the timing, I'd set it at 16BTDC.
Do this: Set the crank pully lined up to 16 BTDC, with the rotor pointing at # 1 Cylinder, with the key on, put a 12 Volt probe on the hot or red wire on the pick-up for your EI Dizzie.
Loosen the base of the dizzie so it is snug but will move. With the cap on, Turn the key to the on position, rotate the dizzie counter-clockwise until the test light turns off (if it's on), and then slowly rotate Clockwise until the light just comes on - and lock the distributor down. Test drive it and see if you still get pinging.
From this point, if you still get pinging, you can use the pointer on the Dizzie mounting plate and the degree marks on the block to advance or retard a degree or so at a time until you get it where you want.

Now, after all that, go spend $20 at harbor freight and buy a cheap timing light
Tom
EDIT: Greg posted about the same time. Only difference in our method is I thought I saw that you converted to EI, which would mean that it should also have been recurved.

[cocoaed]

Greg and All, I've pulled the plugs, they are very black and dry, sooty (not oily) and no sign of water or rust on the plugs. So, that means its running too rich, right? Also I go thru gas very fast so, another indication that its running too rich.

It is a 1968 so I guess it is the "smog" type distributor. No points, someone put on an electronic Ignition system a long time ago. I don't see any timing marks on the bottom pulley at all. This is all so frustrating! The water just keeps dissapearing yet, no sign of it in the oil, no sign of leaks anywhere, it hold pressure for HOURS when I hooked up a pressure test gauge to the coolant system. Also, it ran cooler on straight water! WHAT'S UP WITH THAT??
==Ed

[Gregs672000]

The burping was a good idea. Water vs coolant should make no real difference. Crankshaft pully should be notched in places on the back (or front?) edge... look carefully, and if (when) found you may want to mark them with white paint. Need to know what kind of EI it has... if it was just a replacement like a Petronix then they may not have changed the distributor curve. If it was one of the Nissan conversions (Black box on the side of the distributor) it is likely recurved already. Water disappearing still says head gasket to me. Have you been able to find the "sniffer" system I talked about earlier? It sniffs for exhaust fumes in the coolant, indicative of a blown headgasket. Black plugs are indeed rich and will cause overheating as well. Run-on generally is too lean, but it can occur too rich too. You really need a timing light to find out if the timing is advancing... a faulty distributor could be stopping the distributor from advancing or may be holding it up in certain places, so rotate the rotor by hand to see if it moves relatively smoothly and springs back a bit. I have very strong suspicions of that distributor.

As mentioned, you may want to confirm actual water temp by another means... I used a kitchen thermo, but the laser is nice.

[notoptoy]

Pictures would be helpful!

[Linda]

You need a timing light one way or another, buy or borrow for free from Autozone tool program, Oreilly too I believe.
Check the freeze plugs, also heater hoses, valve, and core.
Good luck
Linda

[cocoaed]

Greg, The E.I is a blue metal box, mounted in front of the battery. It says, Co-Op electronic ignition on it. I haven't been able to locate a sniffer that you mentioned but, I did hook up a pressure guage to the radiator cap and it held the 7 lbs pressure for 12 hours. Seems if I had a leaky head gasket, it wouldn't hold it for nearly that long. Also, no sign of water in the oil or plugs. Seems it would have to show up there as well.

Linda, I have checked the heater core and hoses. No leaks there. I haven't checked the freeze plugs though. I guess I can only see those from underneath?

I have another totally unrelated question. For the life of me, I can't figure out how to zero the trip meter. I can't find any button to press or any knob to turn to reset it. Can someone tell me where this would be on a 68 SPL311?

Ed

[dbrick]

IIRC, the knob is on a short fat cable to the right of the steering wheel, unless yours is broken/missing, which happens. Black knob, 5/16" diameter.

[cocoaed]

IIRC, the knob is on a short fat cable to the right of the steering wheel, unless yours is broken/missing, which happens. Black knob, 5/16" diameter.

Thanks but, found nothing there. It must be missing. I even got on my back down by the peddles and looked around back there with a flashlight but no luck. Oh well. Seems I keep striking out with this car.

[spl310]

Ed,

If you can get that wildebeest up closer to me, I can help you with a bunch of stuff.

[Gregs672000]

Greg, The E.I is a blue metal box, mounted in front of the battery. It says, Co-Op electronic ignition on it. I haven't been able to locate a sniffer that you mentioned but, I did hook up a pressure guage to the radiator cap and it held the 7 lbs pressure for 12 hours. Seems if I had a leaky head gasket, it wouldn't hold it for nearly that long. Also, no sign of water in the oil or plugs. Seems it would have to show up there as well.

Ed

Ya, that electronic ignition just makes me nervous. Anyone local on the list able to provide a good distributor for testing? You may also get lucky at your local autoparts store and get a new Roadster distributor... a friend did that a few years ago. Really, we need to get a timing light (cheap ones have been more difficult to locate in autoparts stores these days!) to see if it is missing, advancing, etc. The mechanicals of the distributor could be just fine while the electronics are cutting out. Missing would explain your black plugs too, and poor running as rpms climb. Regarding the head gasket, 7lbs is nothing compared to the pressures in the engine, but it is good it held for so long. Does your exhaust smell like coolant? (I can always smell when someone is burning coolant!). You should be able to rent one of these at your local autoparts store: http://www.importtuner.com/tech/impp_11 ... iagnostic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;". I would hold off on renting this yet... Why?

Because your symptoms are overheating, black plugs, poor running and questionable ignition product, I would put my first money towards a timing light to determine if it is firing, if it is firing consistently, proper timing, and advancing normally. Since this electronic ignition is aftermarket, I would assume the car still has a smog distributor in it... you will eventually need to confirm that. If you have the option, get an ADVANCING timing light... it will allow you to see how many degrees the distributor is advancing. Since the smog distributor advances so much more than the non-smog it should be obvious with a little coaching and feedback. Does it have the smog equip on it or all plugged up and removed? Rallye Roadster said years ago that people often removed the smog stuff and then retimed the motor to non-smog specs without knowing they had to change the distributor curve too.

My money is on an ignition problem. Again, hang in there, we'll get it sorted out!

[spl310]

Ed,

PM me your number so we can chat.

[cocoaed]

Greg, It looks like all smog stuff has been removed. I'll bet you're right, that the distributor is probably still the original. I drove it some more today after doing some more "burping" of the radiator. It seemed to run a bit cooler, it was still above the mid-point but, it didn't get up to 250 this time like it did before and I drove it the same distance (about a 15 min ride one way, at 60-70mph) and today was just as hot.
I took some pics of the engine, distributor, E.I., etc.. , I will try and post them later. I'm not sure how to post pics there though.
--Ed

[tjp]

You may also get lucky at your local autoparts store and get a new Roadster distributor... a friend did that a few years ago

Seriously? What a find that would be!