Altima Vented Rotors

[mklotz70]

Sweet! Sorry about that......I just went back to page one and re-read the thread up to where I joined in. All of my cars have had my "personal touch" because I couldn't afford for anyone else to touch them! LOL. My 2011 Kia Soul has not been touched yet. I even pay someone else to change the oil.....I so hate working on daily drivers!! If it's not creative work on a car, I don't want to work on the car at all. Working in the shop on projects like the brake mods is much more interesting. Anyway.....

I completely understand the time spent find this rotor. I've spent hundreds of hours over the years researching different options for different rigs. I've also been on the other side and gotten "lucky". The upgrade I designed for the 1200's was that way. Took less than 4 hours to figure out....and that counted the time going to the scrap yard and finding the rotor and caliper in the first row!!

[mklotz70]

I should have went back and read the first post before I asked that!! LOL

[mklotz70]

Got these done yesterday.

[corey.vixie]

Beautiful, Mike! Is one of those sets for me???

[mklotz70]

Yep.
Just have to wait another week or two for the caliper spacers to get finished. I'll have all the hardware by then too.

[mklotz70]

Speaking of hardware......

I did a lot of measuring this morning trying to figure out exactly what bolts to use for the caliper. I don't remember what length of bolt shifty used......and he hasn't gotten back to me about it yet..... it engaged nicely, but not quite all the way.

A 1.625" bolt would be perfect and could be used with a high grade lock washer. Problem with this option is that they just don't make a bolt that long.
A 1.75" is too long and would have enough hanging out that it would have to be ground off or it would hit the back of the rotor. I could put a high grade washer and an extra thick flat washer under the head to take up the difference, but I'm a bit concerned about using a flat washer. I'd rather have just a lock washer between the head and the caliper.
A 1.5" bolt will come up a bit short with the washer on. I'm thinking that the best solution is a 1.5" flanged bolt and use loctite instead of a lock washer. I can get the ampules(.5ml) of 242 for less than $2ea. One ampule is enough to do the 4 bolts. The upside is the bolt would be just right....the downside would be having to get more loctite when you have to remove the caliper. I can get the ampules in 262, but it requires heat to remove.....I doubt anyone wants to take a torch to there calipers next time they change their pads.

Another option is that I do not include the bolts and guys can buy whatever they are comfortable with. My hang up with this option is that I'm afraid that someone will get lazy or ...uummm....let's say..."dumb"....and try to use a cheap bolt or the stock bolts. I'm a hobbiest just trying to help....last thing I need is for someone to try to sue me because they were too lazy to go get the right bolts. I've always included the high grade bolts and hardware with the kits I've done. I'm more concerned with this issue with the truck guys, but I'm just trying to cover my butt.

I'm open to opinions and options on the bolts. I'll need to make a decision by about tues or wed so I can place the order. I want them in hand by the time the cutters are done with the parts.

[dbrick]

Have you looked at Pagasus racing for the bolts?

[fj20spl311]

Speaking of hardware......
.

I don't know what size bolt I used, as I bought 2" grade 8 bolts and cut them to fit.

The ideal bolt would have a hole for safety wire.

[corey.vixie]

I just checked McMaster-Carr, and while they do have bolts that length, the shank is much too small, and there's virtually no selection to speak of.

What's the exact danger of using a flatwasher in this application? There are plenty of places on the car where a lockwasher and flatwasher are used in conjunction. Maybe I'm missing something specific to the brakes?

[mklotz70]

My take has always been that the split(lock) washers are only effective when they are clamped between two surfaces that are less hard than itself. The grade 8 bolt is the same hardness and if you put a gr8 flat washer on the other side, it can't dig in there either. Once flattened, the split washer is effectively a flat washer. In the following links, you'll find a bunch of opinion on the split washer being useless. I'm not sure I quite agree with that. Loctite or thread locker is the preferred method in a high vibration location. I would say the caliper is subjected to high vibration when the car is moving at speed. The threads on a grade 8 really only need about a 1/4" of thread engagement, but I'd prefer to see all the threads engaged in the plate.

Back to the flat washer....it would have no way to effectively grab the caliper, even if the split washer managed to dig into it. Either the flat washer will spin on the caliper or the split washer will spin on the flat washer.


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http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=114051" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[corey.vixie]

Sounds good. In that case, I think I agree that locktite is the best solution. I have no issue reapplying every time I take those bolts out.

[Gregs672000]

Mklotz70, you have done a lot of work laying this all out! Well done!

I don't know if an adaptor is possible using the stock caliper mount as I don't know if there is enough room to bolt something to it... in my case because of my wheels I needed the holes to be such that the caliper was as close to center as possible. I didn't try to measure it in my recent exam for a stock wheel, and only held one on without bolting it down to see if it hit anywhere, but not noting tolerances.

I can imagine that the more "bolt on" you make this set up the easier it will be to sell or produce. That was one of the real advantages to using a volvo caliper, which I did not know comes in a vented disc version.

If you want, I can remove a wheel and measure the diameter of the Maxima rotor "hat" to see if it is different from the altima.

[mklotz70]

Gregs....thanks

I wouldn't ask you to make a special effort to get the measurement, but please keep it in mind the next time you have a wheel off.

The bolt on bracket for yours would involve offesting(clocking) the rotor around just a bit and using counter sunk allen head bolts to attach the new bracket to the old. If that can't be made to work, then the easiest, next best, would be to use the slightly larger Altim rotor which will move the caliper outboard a bit, giving more room for bolts. Another option would be to make a new caliper bracket completely....that would also make it a bolt on.

Here's the real hang up for me.....buying a brand new rotor and turning the thickness down to the minimum allowed. It makes the brand new rotor a throw away right out of the gate. As drastic as that seems to me, I can see that it might be completely necessary to fit a particular rim.....which completely justifies it as a "one off" setup. I would help someone recreate it for the same reasons, but it's not something I'd pursue as a kit. I say this, not knowing anything about the comparison size, weight, wise between the Toy caliper and the Volvo caliper. Other than wheel fitment, there may be some other reasons to go with the Toy/Max option. In trying to offer a kit to help others improve their brakes, I tend to use the Spock ideology.... "The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few, or the one". LOL! No, I'm not a hard core Trekkie, but if 90% of the roadster owners are running 14" or bigger rims, I'm not going to try to make a kit for 13" rims..........at least not to start with.

I just went back and looked at your thread again......your calipers are 2 piece......have you considered or looked into spacers between the caliper halves? I've seen it done on other rotors....an 1/8" spacer plate in there would save having to cut the thickness down on the rotor. Just a thought.

Small update....the hardware is now on order and will show up in the next couple of days. McMaster-Carr is typically a great place to buy hardware! I placed the order after midnight and it already says it will be shipped today! The cross drilled rotors I ordered took a week to get put in the mail....even though they sent a tracking number(bogus #). Gotta love companies that don't talk about customer service, they just provide it!

[Gregs672000]

Hmmm, I don't believe the Maxima rotor was turned down that much. As I recall, it had to be turned just slightly in order to meet the maximum rotor thickness the Toyota caliper took based on the maximum thickness of the Toyota rotor. The Maxima rotor is well within its minimal thickness, otherwise I would not have used it. I am not fully sure which year rotor I used other than it was 4 bolt. I don't believe they changed much if any over the few years it was used, but I could be wrong. Also, being that the Toyota is a truck, I would imagine the stock rotor thickness to be pretty beefy, so the Maxima turned down to that should still be quite thick.

As you noted, I did things to fit my 280zx 6 spoke 14" wheels. I do know the stock wheel will fit as I have it now, and the set up may have fit without cutting down the diameter of the maxima disc. Reducing the diameter should have no effect on braking. Its fade resistance is greatly improved over stock, and over the original volvo/Roadster hybrid set ups I've driven.

An adaptor would be great, and by your description could be made to bolt up I think. I welded on 1/4" thick steel plate... will that be thick enough by itself to be strong? Might also weld on nuts instead of drilling and tapping it like I did.

[Gregs672000]

Reviewed your posts regarding thickness of the various rotors. I do see that minimum is 20 for the Maxima, and that is the starting thickness for the toyota! Well, again, not sure if I had it turned that far down or not. Also not sure why it would be ok for the toyota to be 20mm and the Maxima to be "maxed out" or minimally thick at 20mm. But I do hear what you are saying. For the record however, I have no problems with cracking, fading, warping, etc. Perhaps the 20mm thickness is in relation to how far it can be turned down until it is "unturnable" again but still useable? Either way, I'm not worried. If we're talking about mm here (which we are), and one was concerned the pad themselves could be shaved a tad to accommodate the larger disc I would imagine, unless the rotor itself would not fit within the caliper.