I'm having clutch problems.. need help!!

[toadster]

Well I'm hoping somebody knows whats going on, I put an almost new motor in my 67 1600 it runs great, but when I tried to put it in gear it would not go in, it just grinds, so I read the post on "big clutch mistake" and followed the adjustment procedure. After adjustment it now goes into gear but when I begin to let off the clutch it grinds badly but the car does move I just havn't let the clutch out all the way in fear of tearing something up.
The car rolls a couple inches in gear, with the clutch pushed in the car rolls like it was in neutral and I looked under the car and the clutch fork is moving. Is the transmission possibly bad? or do I just need to keep trying to adjust? and what about the adjusting the the master cyl. where the pedal arm meets the plunger rod? Any way Any help would truly be appreciated. Thanks!

[Datrock]

First I would try to bleed it a few more times. But it does sound like a throwout bearing. Could also be a clutch disk that has separtated. Will it start ok in gear with the clutch pushed in or does it lurch forward?
Just wondering? When you installed your new engine, was the engine and transmission installed as an uninspected unit, which means installed without checking the condition of the components in the bellhousing. Or was the engine separate from the tranny and you used your tranny,old p/plate, c/disk, t/ bearing and flywheel. Sorry about all the questions, just tring to help with a little more info needed... Bill

[toadster]

Thanks for the response, yes the motor was seperate from the tranny and I used my old clutch, etc. however I did just start the car and it does not lunge forward, the noise is really more like when a power steering unit goes low on fluid and it makes sort of a whirring sound. I did check out the clutch components which seemed fine. I drove the car and it makes the noise only on takeoff after that it seems fine even when I shift gears there is no sound, upshifting or down shifting, Hope that helps and once again thank you. This is my first Datsun rebuild actually of any car, my parents own one they used to have 3 but gave one to my daughter and one to my nephew!



Dave Almazan
Modesto CA
67 1600 (almost completed)

[Datrock]

If not the Throwout Bearing it might be the pilot bushing on the end of the crankshaft, did you replace it? If the input shaft and the pilot bushing are not properly lubed they will bind up. Did the transmission and engine go together smoothly or was it a struggle to get them mated? Pilot bushing lockup will cause the tranny input and clutch disc to not slow down or stop unless the engine is off. This will make it hard to get into gear when sitting still or on takeoff.
Bad part is, to fix the Pilot Bushing or Throwout bearing you will need to do another R/R, which if that is the case I would put new items in place of the old and get the flywheel turned if there are any burnt ( Blue) spots or grooving.
Make sure you top off the transmission with gear oil after installation, that will help out with quieting down the tranny bearings..Hope this help your troubleshooting... Bill

[toadster]

Thanks again Bill for the info. the motor and trans went together with no problems, and I have no problems getting it into gear, it only makes noise at takeoff, but... I did not replace the pilot bearing, it looked to be in very good shape however I did not grease the trans shaft end, I really didn't know it was to be done, this is my first project car and I really don't know alot about mechanics although I'm around cars all the time (I paint them) I have had some friends helping me at times, unfortunantly no one was around when I put the clutch assy. together and mounted the motor to trans. a friend said that maybe I put the clutch plate in backwards but I think the plate doesn't fit flush against flywheel if it is backwards, am I right? I was really hoping I didn't have to R/R the motor but it looks like its inevitable! I'll let you know


Dave Almazan
Modesto CA
67 1600 (almost completed)

[Datrock]

I do not know if its possible with a roadster but yes, putting the disk in backwards can be done but with a BB Chevelle, it would not go into gear and I smelt clutch burning upon startup. Luckily when I removed the plate the disc was not damaged. It was actually easier than a roadster clutch job. Do you smell a clutch odor?
Your description sounds like the throwout bearing is bad enough to make noise when a load is applied to it but it's hard to tell if I'm not there listening. Some times a throwout bearing looks in great shape but the bearings are worn inside.
Did you remove the throwout bearing from the fork and maybe put it back on wrong? If you do tear back into it check the fingers on the pressure plate to see if they are not worn down, shiny and grooved, if so you should replace it too. Glad to help out... Bill

[dbrick]

I think if it was the throwout bearing, partially depressing the clutch should get the bearing against the pressure plate and get it spinning and making noise. Should make the same or similar noise whether in gear and moving, or neutral as long as the TO bearing is pressed against the pressure plate and spinning. If no noise in neutral, TO may not be it
If it does it on takeoff in gear, is it different in 1st or reverse? If so, something may be moving under engine torque, trans mount, driveshaft.
If you can, try starting out in second see if same noise. Maybe on a slight downhill to save the clutch.

If oil or grease got on the friction surface it can make the clutch grab and chatter pretty badly too.

Just a few thoughts, hope it helps

[ambradley]

Yes, it's possible to put a disk in backwards (springs sticking out towards flywheel) because I've done it. Car would run and drive but shuddered when going into gear and made a rattling sound with clutch depressed. When I took it apart, two or three of the springs had broken out and there were marks on the flywheel bolts.

On my 411, I had the wrong type of throwout bearing (flat face rather than ribbed, correct for earlier transmission but not for mine). It froze up and was pressed back. Smoked when running while the clutch was pressed as it ground away at the pressure plate fingers. That's a different style pressure plate though, individual round springs and three large fingers.

[toadster]

Thanks Bill, Dave, Adam,
I tried the clutch in reverse and taking off in second, same noise... however I went through all four gears and it's only making the noise on take off. Is the clutch release arm adjustment really touchy? should I try adjusting it again with maybe just a quarter turn each time? any thoughts would be appreciated!
Thanks Again for your input,
Dave


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Dave Almazan
Modesto CA
67 1600 (almost completed

[Datrock]

When adjusting the clutch do it at he slave cylinder, I usually make sure that the slave rod and fork arm have some play in them, so your not riding on the throwout bearing when the clutch is released. Take the slave spring off and see if you have movment with the arm and slave rod, If you don't you have the bearing pressed up against the fingers on the pressure place and everything will wear out fast. Back off the nut and lock nut on the rod until you have some play on the fork. This will help adjusting the clutch engagement at the pedal and keeping from wearing out the throwout & p.plate. I would expect to do a couple adjustments to get things to were your comfortable with your clutch pedal.
Another clutch related problem I have occured was when I still had the 1600 installed and then went to the U20 Pressure plate, the slave cylinder was used to the light spring weight of the 1600 pressure plate. Once I put in a new slave cylinder in the clutch was alot more consistent with it's engagement.
Sounds like the disk will fit in backward, thanks Adam I feel better knowing I'm not the only one who has done it. Hey, at least your getting to drive it a little while troubleshooting .. Bill

[spl310]

I could be out to lunch here, but if it only happens when you start moving, are you sure it is a clutch noise? Could it be a dragging brake drum backing plate, or something touching the driveshaft?