67 1600, whats a fair price?

Moderators: notoptoy, garth, S Allen

User avatar
bakerjf
Site Supporter
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:48 pm

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by bakerjf » Fri May 20, 2016 5:57 pm

fj20spl311 wrote:
datsunroadster wrote: he felt he couldnt go wrong since it was numbers matching. I kind of agree with him.
I don't understand this "numbers matching" phenomenon.

There is almost no way to verify a roadster's engine as "numbers matching".

It might be important on a car that has verified SUPER LOW mileage. But this was certainly not a unmolested example.
+1
J. Baker
Cupertino, CA
'69 2000 (Solex)

datsunroadster
Roadster Newby
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:47 pm
Location: Ocean City Maryland

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by datsunroadster » Fri May 20, 2016 6:21 pm

fj20spl311 wrote:
datsunroadster wrote: he felt he couldnt go wrong since it was numbers matching. I kind of agree with him.
I don't understand this "numbers matching" phenomenon.

There is almost no way to verify a roadster's engine as "numbers matching".

It might be important on a car that has verified SUPER LOW mileage. But this was certainly not a unmolested example.
If the ID tag matches both the engine pad and the frame serial numbers, isnt that an original car?

User avatar
bakerjf
Site Supporter
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:48 pm

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by bakerjf » Fri May 20, 2016 6:33 pm

You can buy a reproduction plate and have whatever you want stamped on them. As long as the engine number is "in the ballpark" of what would be expected no one would really know one way or the other.
J. Baker
Cupertino, CA
'69 2000 (Solex)

datsunroadster
Roadster Newby
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:47 pm
Location: Ocean City Maryland

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by datsunroadster » Fri May 20, 2016 7:08 pm

bakerjf wrote:You can buy a reproduction plate and have whatever you want stamped on them. As long as the engine number is "in the ballpark" of what would be accepted no one would really know one way or the other.
Ok? That sounds very shady. If someone does that and misrepresents a cars authenticity, I would think they are breaking a law or two. Lol! The ID plate on that ebay car looks to dated and worn to be a fake.

User avatar
fj20spl311
Roadsteraholic
Posts: 4886
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: San Diego, Ca

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by fj20spl311 » Fri May 20, 2016 9:47 pm

datsunroadster wrote:
Ok? That sounds very shady. If someone does that and misrepresents a cars authenticity, I would think they are breaking a law or two. Lol! The ID plate on that ebay car looks to dated and worn to be a fake.
But they admit they don't know the history, just a story they were told 2- PO back, and let you draw your own conclusions.

I have a Roadster with a Plate that has an engine number FJ20-XXXXXX Now, that's a rare 67.5 2000 roadster.... :lol:
Also its very easy to make a plate look old. If there's money in it, people ........
Phil
67.5 SRL311-00148 Blue (FJ cruiser VOODOO Blue)
67.5 SPL311 FJ20E teal SDS EFI
69 SRL311 SOLD
19 Raptor SCAB

User avatar
fj20spl311
Roadsteraholic
Posts: 4886
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: San Diego, Ca

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by fj20spl311 » Fri May 20, 2016 9:52 pm

datsunroadster wrote: If the ID tag matches the frame serial numbers
If it doesn't match the frame RUN WAY as fast as you can.
Phil
67.5 SRL311-00148 Blue (FJ cruiser VOODOO Blue)
67.5 SPL311 FJ20E teal SDS EFI
69 SRL311 SOLD
19 Raptor SCAB

datsunroadster
Roadster Newby
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:47 pm
Location: Ocean City Maryland

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by datsunroadster » Fri May 20, 2016 10:02 pm

fj20spl311 wrote:
datsunroadster wrote:
Ok? That sounds very shady. If someone does that and misrepresents a cars authenticity, I would think they are breaking a law or two. Lol! The ID plate on that ebay car looks to dated and worn to be a fake.
But they admit they don't know the history, just a story they were told 2- PO back, and let you draw your own conclusions.

I have a Roadster with a Plate that has an engine number FJ20-XXXXXX Now, that's a rare 67.5 2000 roadster.... :lol:
Also its very easy to make a plate look old. If there's money in it, people ........
I'm not going off of what was said in storied history. I'm going off of the very authentic and old looking ID tag that clearly matches the eng pad block and the frame. I understand the trailer man isnt the original owner. I'm just going off of the photos which are pretty clear. I hear you on scumbags faking an ID tag. This car was bought and then put immediately up for sale in less than 2 or 3 days. I highly doubt that this is a faked car. The evidence is all right there in all the photos.

datsunroadster
Roadster Newby
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:47 pm
Location: Ocean City Maryland

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by datsunroadster » Fri May 20, 2016 10:07 pm

fj20spl311 wrote:
datsunroadster wrote: If the ID tag matches the frame serial numbers
If it doesn't match the frame RUN WAY as fast as you can.
The photos shown in the listing after the description clearly show the ID tag and how it matches the engine pad. The photos also show the ID tag and how it matches the frame.

People are saying numbers matching doesnt matter?? Thats confusing to me. I get that it doesnt if you just want a nice driver. It does however matter to me if you want a nice driver that has its original drivetrain. There is a difference. Theres a difference in pedigree and value in the end.

User avatar
bakerjf
Site Supporter
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:48 pm

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by bakerjf » Fri May 20, 2016 10:24 pm

datsunroadster wrote:
fj20spl311 wrote:
datsunroadster wrote: If the ID tag matches the frame serial numbers
If it doesn't match the frame RUN WAY as fast as you can.
The photos shown in the listing after the description clearly show the ID tag and how it matches the engine pad. The photos also show the ID tag and how it matches the frame.

People are saying numbers matching doesnt matter?? Thats confusing to me. I get that it doesnt if you just want a nice driver. It does however matter to me if you want a nice driver that has its original drivetrain. There is a difference. Theres a difference in pedigree and value in the end.
While "matching numbers" has been a big deal for American muscle cars and such for a long time, for people new to the Roadster scene, historically it just hasn't been as much of a deal here. There's nowhere to send away for your car's birth certificate to find out exactly what was in it, what color it was, and where it was imported into the US. The VIN doesn't hold any special characters signifying this or that, etc. Is it nice to have the original engine? - sure, but everything else being equal most of us would choose condition over pedigree. I personally haven't seen a lot of evidence to suggest "matching number" Roadsters command any sort of premium.
J. Baker
Cupertino, CA
'69 2000 (Solex)

User avatar
fj20spl311
Roadsteraholic
Posts: 4886
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: San Diego, Ca

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by fj20spl311 » Fri May 20, 2016 10:42 pm

+1

The only "Matching Number" cars I have seen with any increase in value...and even than there is some discussion....are Extremely Low Mileage cars with a Long and Complete provenance.

There is a huge and heated (for us) discussion about a Yellow 67.5 2000 claiming Original Paint when the whole body had been replaced with a pristine 67.5 1600 body. The body swap was well documented in the past, but somehow got lost over the years.
It was a car almost all of us would have been proud to own.
Phil
67.5 SRL311-00148 Blue (FJ cruiser VOODOO Blue)
67.5 SPL311 FJ20E teal SDS EFI
69 SRL311 SOLD
19 Raptor SCAB

JohnnyMac
Site Supporter
Posts: 350
Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:36 pm
Location: Redding, CA

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by JohnnyMac » Fri May 20, 2016 10:56 pm

http://www.newsday.com/classifieds/cars ... -1.6154213
I found this article on "numbers matching" to be a good read. I particularly liked the line "'I said it was matching numbers, and it is. I never said it was the original engine.'" Unfortunately, ID plates are available for roadsters that can be stamped with any engine number. I believe that replacement engine blocks were also available without numbers stamped on them. And there are no records known or available to cross reference a VIN (frame number) to the particular engine it left the factory with.
.......and then I saw bakerjf's post and figured he may have said it better
John

SRL311-05287

datsunroadster
Roadster Newby
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:47 pm
Location: Ocean City Maryland

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by datsunroadster » Fri May 20, 2016 11:04 pm

bakerjf wrote:
datsunroadster wrote:
fj20spl311 wrote: If it doesn't match the frame RUN WAY as fast as you can.
The photos shown in the listing after the description clearly show the ID tag and how it matches the engine pad. The photos also show the ID tag and how it matches the frame.

People are saying numbers matching doesnt matter?? Thats confusing to me. I get that it doesnt if you just want a nice driver. It does however matter to me if you want a nice driver that has its original drivetrain. There is a difference. Theres a difference in pedigree and value in the end.
While "matching numbers" has been a big deal for American muscle cars and such for a long time, for people new to the Roadster scene, historically it just hasn't been as much of a deal here. There's nowhere to send away for your car's birth certificate to find out exactly what was in it, what color it was, and where it was imported into the US. The VIN doesn't hold any special characters signifying this or that, etc. Is it nice to have the original engine? - sure, but everything else being equal most of us would choose condition over pedigree. I personally haven't seen a lot of evidence to suggest "matching number" Roadsters command any sort of premium.
Thanks for the information. I collect it all. British, Germam, Japanese, American, new, 90's, 80's, 70's, 60's, original, modified, turbos, drivers, projects, never show cars, etc.. I get that condition means something. Hey, its less work. Lol! I'm down with that. It depends on what I'm looking for at the time. If I want a driver or easy fix, then condition matters. But if I'm looking for a project, I usually want something with some originality. When I put in the time, money, and work on a project, I want to bring it back as close as I can to its original glory. Thats when numbers matching with originality mean something to me. Thanks again for the differemt perspective.

datsunroadster
Roadster Newby
Posts: 17
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 4:47 pm
Location: Ocean City Maryland

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by datsunroadster » Fri May 20, 2016 11:17 pm

Fyi: If Trailer Man faked this ID Tag, dirty engine pad, or frame #'s, tjen he should be working for CSI or as a props specialist. Lmao
IMG_5309_zps9qmn9dy3.jpg
IMG_5305_zpsmli4zgam.jpg
IMG_5307_zpsumr6qhfp.jpg
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

User avatar
bakerjf
Site Supporter
Posts: 1271
Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:48 pm

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by bakerjf » Fri May 20, 2016 11:44 pm

datsunroadster wrote:Fyi: If Trailer Man faked this ID Tag, dirty engine pad, or frame #'s, tjen he should be working for CSI or as a props specialist. LmaoIMG_5309_zps9qmn9dy3.jpgIMG_5305_zpsmli4zgam.jpgIMG_5307_zpsumr6qhfp.jpg
Don't know if you have a car yet, but there are plenty of matching number examples here on the West Coast, with solid frames... Also, while 67.5 2000's are indeed rare, 67.5 1600's really aren't. Out here, that car would be good for one thing - parts. The economics of trying to turn that into anything makes zero sense me.
J. Baker
Cupertino, CA
'69 2000 (Solex)

User avatar
fj20spl311
Roadsteraholic
Posts: 4886
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 3:54 pm
Location: San Diego, Ca

Re: 67 1600, whats a fair price?

Post by fj20spl311 » Sat May 21, 2016 1:14 am

Is it getting late or ?

I don't read that frame VIN as being the same as the plate.
That 5th digit is not a "9" ....look at the font in the ID plate.
Phil
67.5 SRL311-00148 Blue (FJ cruiser VOODOO Blue)
67.5 SPL311 FJ20E teal SDS EFI
69 SRL311 SOLD
19 Raptor SCAB