Timing and Other Issues

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Jorge0227
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Timing and Other Issues

Post by Jorge0227 »

Good morning!
I’m getting some local help, but would like as much input as possible. Engine was not fired for about 10 years after rebuild. Our current situation has given me plenty of garage time and I’m using it! Redid brakes, fuel
Pump, and others.
Engine starts very easily. Idle seems to be slightly above 500rpm.
I can’t get it to rev up without hesitating and won’t go to a steady higher rev.
Now temperature also is rising (per gauge reading) to 250°
Oil pressure gauge is right in the middle line.
When crank is at 0°, piston is at top position, distributor on #1, point has a .33mm gap (all pictures below)
I would greatly appreciate it if you could Please help me work this out.
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jrusso07
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Re: Timing and Other Issues

Post by jrusso07 »

What year is the engine? What is timing currently set at? (degrees before TDC). Is this a non-smog dizzy with the cam marked with 7.5? Make sure you are not seeing fuel starvation (clogged filters, mis-set floats, defective fuel pump, etc)

Assuming you dont have a timing light. Disconnect the timing advance. Set the idle to 1500 or 2000 rpm. Then rotate the dizzy to get highest RPMs. Once set. set the the idle to normal and see how she does.
Joe

1969 SRL311 - Solex
1970 SPL311 - U20 mod
1970 SRL311
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Gregs672000
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Re: Timing and Other Issues

Post by Gregs672000 »

As Joe said it's imperative to determine what timing curve is in the distributor. Early cars without smog equipment were timed at about 17 degree advance at idle. Later smog equipped cars were timed at 0. TOTAL advance should be about 34 or so regardless of timing curve. The amount of advance built into the distributor is different: The early distributor added in much less advance and thusly was set at 17 initial, with the later adding in a lot more and is thus set at zero. If you set the initial timing at 17 on a smog distributor it will way over advance (add 17 to 34!) and can damage the engine by firing the plugs as the piston is down much further in its stroke, causing the explosion of fuel to push against the piston while it's on its way up! That will cause loads of problems, including overheating.

Without a timing light (best would be a dial back timing light so you can more easily see what the advance is at any given point), you will need to disassemble the top half of the distributor to see what is stamped on the upside down slotted T (cam) as that's what controls the advance curve and amount. Once you know, you can then set the initial timing. One way to do that without a timing light is to set the crank to whatever the initial timing should be (17 or 0. On the crank pulley 0 is far left, each mark is 5 degrees), then with the distributor cap off and the ignition ON, rotate the distributor until the points spark or open (that's what fires the plug). Turn off the ignition, lock down the distributor and see how it runs. You will be in the ballpark, but a timing light will finalize your setting. You can also play with it a little by rotating the distributor one way or the other while it's running. If she pings on acceleration under load (91-92 -octane fuel), back the timing off a couple degrees (there should be a scale on the distributor mount).

Another possibility for your symptoms could be a bad condenser, the little canister looking thing on the side of the distributor. Seen it many times.

Hope this helps!
Greg Burrows
'67 2000 #588
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redroadster
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Re: Timing and Other Issues

Post by redroadster »

Sounds possibly fuel related- vacuum leak slide stuck binding . ? Old fuel ...it doesnt vaporize as much
Centrifical adv free?
Whats compression. Like ?
Wont rev ? 2500
Motor turns free by hand ?
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LiamH
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Re: Timing and Other Issues

Post by LiamH »

I hope this is OK but our situation sounds similar to Jorge0227's. My father gave my son a 1970 Roadster. We know it has not run for at least 10yrs. So far we replaced radiator, mechanical fuel pump, dissassembled and cleaned carbs. We had the car running w/ good oil pressure. Car would regularly start on starting fluid, would then idle fast 1500ish would not rev up for about 5 mins had to feather it then once it revvfed to 2500ish once then it would be fine and sounded great. When engine was shutoff at this point it would diesel exceptionally bad (maybe a minute). We then adjusted dog bones and roughly tweaked idle adj. to bring idle down with some success. We did an initial check of timing and the timing marks were visible but roatating distributor never got the marks in range of the distributor movement. We then adjusted valves and seemed to make marks further out of range but dieseling improved but was still there. I then pulled distributor thinking it may be off a lobe (obviously never pulled dist. on a roadster. I then read that the #1cyl wire can be reversed. I have now lost track of where wires in Dist. were originallt(I know violated cardinal rule). I now can not get engine to start. I also have read where there should be oil in carb? and the overflow has started puking fuel.
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Re: Timing and Other Issues

Post by LiamH »

Further info. It is a 1970 1600 poluution control equip is gone.
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jrusso07
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Re: Timing and Other Issues

Post by jrusso07 »

You need to pull the points/breaker plate out of the distributor and look at the marking on the cam. If it is marked (stamped) 17.5, then you still have the smog distributor and the timing should be set to 0 deg. from TDC. If you find 7.5 stamped on the cam (by where the springs attach), then this is a pre-smog set up and timing should be 16 BTDC.

To find TDC, remove spark plugs, rotate engine until the #1 piston is at TDC - you can look into the spark plug hole and feel the air being pushed out of the hole. This should also put the pointer at the long line on the crank pulley.

Note the drive on the distributor isn't concentric, that is one side of the tab is larger then the other. Match that up with the drive gear in the block and drop the distributor back into place.

I copied the following from another post on the subject:

The 1-3-4-2 is the firing order at the distributor cap.
First, get cylinder #1 (closest to the radiator) at TDC (the best way is to pull the plug and listen/feel for the puff of air, then line up the timing marks on the crank pulley. It should be very close to lining up if air is still being pushed out of the hole)
Second, once TDC is attained, pull the distributor cap off and see where it is pointing. Per your picture, it should be pointed at YOUR #1 or #3 position. That will be the starting point for the firing order, 1-3-4-2.
For example, if your rotor is pointing at YOUR #1 position on the cap, spark plug wire #1 goes there. Then working counter-clockwise from there on the cap, spark plug wire #3 goes on the next terminal, then wire #4 goes on the next terminal, then wire #2 goes on the next terminal, then your back to #1 again.

This is an important read too: http://www.datsunroadster.com/PIC_PAGES ... -10_24.htm
Joe

1969 SRL311 - Solex
1970 SPL311 - U20 mod
1970 SRL311
LiamH
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Re: Timing and Other Issues

Post by LiamH »

Thank you we will start here again today. Appreciate your help and quick response.
LiamH
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Re: Timing and Other Issues

Post by LiamH »

Alright we checked and we have the 17.5 and therefore the original Dist. We checked TDC and rotor cap pointed toward the Driver side rear. Placed #1 wire at the Driver side rear spot on Dist cap. Then 1342. No start. rotated wires 180 deg to 1 At pass front spot on dist then 1432 and started up no hesitation to rev and no dieseling when shutting off. Timing marks still cannot be achieved. Timing is full advanced at Dist. I thinlk I have read where the Dist drive on top of oil pump can be 180 out and therefore the dist is 180 out. I stated 10 yrs since ran it has not been plated since 1993 so probably closer to 27 yrs. any suggestion would be much appreciated. Meanwhile we will start on the rear brakes. Any suggestion on parts available would also be appreciated. My son said he found a Wilwood conversion but I would rather not spend that much. Also need a fuel tank. I sure appreciate your help jrusso07
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jrusso07
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Re: Timing and Other Issues

Post by jrusso07 »

Sounds like you are making good progress. Read this in the tech wiki: http://www.311s.org/pmwiki-311/pmwiki.p ... tallADizzy.

There are two rotational adjustments on the distributor, one at the base and one at the timing plate. You may have to pull the distributor drive (read the above) and rotate it a few teeth...I forget which way,,,

Regarding rear brakes, the shoes can be hard to come by...people have had success with early 510 shoes (before 1972 I think). You can have your current shoes re-lined at a lot of different shops. Drums are fairly common. People on the list have them listed occasionally - just ask, new Rear cylinders can be rebuilt if not too bad, you might even find some new from Nissan dealers
Joe

1969 SRL311 - Solex
1970 SPL311 - U20 mod
1970 SRL311
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