Cheap rear brakes

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Buddy Palumbo
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Cheap rear brakes

Post by Buddy Palumbo » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:02 pm

I am just starting planning my resto mod 1600. I am used to cheap British car parts, and Roadster parts prices are up in XK-E territory, so I keep looking for options. I already have an SR20De for an engine swap.
A GSL-SE rear end would be great, but I'm cheap, and these are getting hard to find. After talking to a guy in the local Mustang club, here is my strange idea, since the old Ford 4 bolt pattern matches the Datsun.
Phantom Grip for the stock diff, $350
Drum brake backing plates from a 66 Mustang with E-brake levers (FREE "just get them out of my garage")
Wheel cylinders, shoes,springs, drums from RockAuto, under $80
Then some adaptors for the brake lines, scrounge up some junkyard e-brake cables, steel sleeves around the wheel studs since the Ford brake drums have larger holes for the studs. I may also need to make adaptor plates to fit the Ford backing plates to the Datsun axle. I plan on larger front brakes of course, so a brake balancer would be part of the deal. I will also be going to 15" wheels. The rear brakes don't work that hard anyway, and the Ford parts would be cheaper than just the brake shoes for a Roadster, and a lot cheaper than any rear disc conversion.

Am I crazy? Any input is welcome!
Buddy Palumbo
1980 TR7
1961 Bugeye Sprite
1967 1600 Roadster

greydog
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by greydog » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:50 pm

Not sure what 4 bolt Ford rear end you're looking at but it's likely too wide for the Roadster so you'll need to cut most anything down. Then you'll need to respline the axles after they're shortened. '
Likely have to move spring perches from the roadster diff to the Ford.
Of course, you probably won't be lucky with u-joints so will have to have some driveline work done.
Then you can worry about the e-brake and connecting hydraulics.

Of course, much of this would have to be done, regardless of what diff you use but it doesn't sound cheap to me.
BTW, I think the swap car that Ted Jr has been driving has a Ford diff in it. You might want to check with Ted to see who built that car and contact the builder.
Dan
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Buddy Palumbo
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by Buddy Palumbo » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:44 pm

I'm not planning on using an entire Ford rear end, just grafting the Ford brakes onto the Datsun housing. It looks doable.

I'm also looking at an interesting rear end on an MGB. The guy kept the long master leaf to help locate the rear axle laterally, installed upper links to keep the housing from moving around under acceleration, and installed low spring rate coil overs. This keeps some of the loads going through the frame where Datsun intended, with weaker loads being applied to the fabricated upper coil over mounts and upper locating links. If the leaf springs don't hold the diff in place laterally, you can still add a Panhard rod
Buddy Palumbo
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pebbles
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by pebbles » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:30 pm

What year is your 1600?
Save your $$$ lol. Rear hard lines are sae. I recently used a scrap roadster brake hardline to bench bleed a master cyl for a 63 falcon.
David




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Alvin
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by Alvin » Tue Jan 22, 2019 6:52 pm

I have some dumb questions, please bare with me.
Buddy Palumbo wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:02 pm
I am used to cheap British car parts, and Roadster parts prices are up in XK-E territory, so I keep looking for options.
Welcome to the forum. Did you buy a Datsun Roadster, knowing that prices are "in the XK-E territory"?
Buddy Palumbo wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:02 pm
I already have an SR20De for an engine swap.
Do you have a roadster? Please post pics of it
Buddy Palumbo wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:02 pm
Am I crazy? Any input is welcome!
You are not crazy. This is the right place to get help though, if someone says you are crazy!
Alvin Gogineni
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greydog
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by greydog » Tue Jan 22, 2019 7:49 pm

Oh, I get it.....you want to replace the Datsun rear brake system with a Ford one....
Not a bad plan....gotta be cheaper to buy Fomoco bits than obsolete Datsun ones.
Be sure to take lots of pics and keep records of part numbers and source so the less imaginative of us can copy your solution.
Hey, the '69's already got Volvo calipers and a GM alty. Might as well have Ford rear brakes too.
Dan
.68 SRL311 aka "Skortch". On the road again.
'69 SPL311 aka "Scooter" terrorizing the streets
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theunz
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by theunz » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:03 pm

That sounds like a lot of money and work for no real gain. The stock rear drums are plenty adequate, heck I don't think that even the racers have rear brake problems. Racers? You can get aftermarket shoes from the vendors for under $50, or just get yours relined. Even if you paid the $140 for OEM ones, it's likely to be a one time buy. Now if you just want to be different, well than knock yourself out. :D
P.S. In case you were unaware of it, the front calipers are the same as the early E-type Jaguars!
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datsunrides
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by datsunrides » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:31 pm

Just throwing this out there, but I would guess all H190 rear end brake parts would interchange. The 610/710/200sx car stuff should work, just the wheel cylinders would be metric. The 520/521 truck had SAE wheel cylinders before going to metric in the 620, but the trucks were 6 lug so the drums won’t work, but the shoes and hardware should all be the same. Probably dirt cheap on Rock Auto. Might be worth a look. Also, wasn’t the Ford 4 lug 4 on 4 1/4? The Datsun is 4 on 4 1/2.
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spl310
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by spl310 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:55 pm

Early Ford was 4x4.5. It changed with the mustang II
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spl310
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by spl310 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:56 pm

Has anyone put self adjusting rear brakes on a roadster? That would be cool.
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Gregs672000
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by Gregs672000 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:31 pm

Ya, if the work is all about improving rear brakes that much, just fix the stock system and make it work right... not known to be fragile or anything (axle collars, bearings etc must be good). I doubt my Rx7 rear discs are a significant upgrade... thought this was more about getting a LSD though...?
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dbrick
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by dbrick » Wed Jan 23, 2019 11:07 pm

spl310 wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:56 pm
Has anyone put self adjusting rear brakes on a roadster? That would be cool.
I adjust them myself, does that count? :D
As far as the conversion, can't see it being a net savings, counting all the effort it would take. If the drums are a different depth than the axles protrude from the backing plates, then its spacers and shims etc. Besides people almost giving away rear axle assemblies for roadsters, you can find wheel cylinder kits, shoes don't cost much, drums don't usually wear out. going to a Mazda for rear disc and stronger axle makes sense if you have the horsepower to break stock stuff. Carl narrowed a Chevy S10 baby 10 bolt, LOTS of work.
Take note, the listings in most parts computers, including RockAuto, are wrong will get you the wrong brake shoes.

IMHO I would just rebuild stock and while in there, repack the rear wheel bearings and good to go for 50,000 miles.

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Buddy Palumbo
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by Buddy Palumbo » Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:10 pm

All, thanks for any and all input. One thing I hadn't considered is the depth of the drums, Spacer would have to be put between the drum and axle. with longer studs, or a backing plate adaptor would have to account for the extra drum width.

Answers to questions you have posed: I purchased rust free(OK no rust through, some surface rust 67 1600), And having played with British roadsters for 45 years I know about rust. It's buried in my shed right now,and pictures I have are lousy. I will post some this spring. I have autocrossed just about every car I have ever owned, and some kind of LSD is a must, hence the cost of a Phantom Grip. I have tracked down 3 GSL-Se rear ends in the midwest over the last year, and the cheapest price quoted was $750, and it was sold the next day.

I didn't research parts prices before I bought the Roadste. It was parked and stored in a garage since 1973 head removed with a blown head gasket. The the engine is finally turning after 4 months of soaking. An SR20DE has been purchased. I will be retiring in a year or two, and the 1600 was purchased as a retirement project.

I think I could do the Ford rear brakes cheaper then new Datsun brakes, if not, it won't happen, there would be little performance upgrade. I like finding oddball solutions to things. I had a TR3 I had restored, frame off. When it overheated in 106 degree weather on the highway, I ended up mounting a used Volvo 240 turbo radiator (sideways) for about a 1/5 the cost of a new radiator. Later it got rack and pinion steering with a TR7 ebay steering rack, some spacers, homemade brackets and Chrysler Cordoba tie rod ends, all for under $100, kits to do the same are about $750.

If I stick with stock rear brakes, I am going to check out alternative wheel cylinders. Google images of AH Bugeye Sprite rear wheel cylinders, I bet they look familiar to everyone. I an going to compare one side by side with my Datsun wheel cylinders this spring, and check the bore sizes. I almost bought two different roadsters back in the 70s. I had agreed to buy a 2000 and the seller took it out for one last drive and spun bearing, I backed out of that one. Around 75 I spotted red 1600 at the local Datsun dealer, complete with SCCA stickers and a roll bar. The Datsun dealer didn't want my MG in trade, and I didn't have the cash needed, so that one got away as well.

I gotta update my profile but current vehicles include the 67 Roadster, a 61 Bugeye Sprite(co owned with my son) and a 1980 TR7 convertible that is getting a 16v Triumph Dolomite Sprint head this winter.
Buddy Palumbo
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fj20spl311
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by fj20spl311 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:23 pm

Why convert to some drum brake when rear disc brake conversion is so cheap.

There is a write-up in the wiki.

200sx rear brakes

I would use it as an idea source. If you want to do it cheaper, you are going to have to modify a few things.

Any of the late model Nissan brakes with 4 lugs should be good donors. Most of the have cheap rotors i.e. 200sx rear rotors are ~$10 on Rock auto
Last edited by fj20spl311 on Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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fj20spl311
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Re: Cheap rear brakes

Post by fj20spl311 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:38 pm

PS: if you heart is set on Drum brakes and you only need wheel cylinders and shoes. The common conversion is Datsun 510. The wheel cylinders are the same except metric thread, so you need to get adaptors from NAPA or change the flange nut. DONT SKIP THIS as the SAE thread just barely catches the thread it might seal for a short time or just stripe out you new wheel cylinder. The shoes are a direct fit.
Phil
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