Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

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Lorna c
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by Lorna c »

AidanDawn2000 wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:17 pm Mushy and decreasingly effective middle pedal that comes as the result of hot brakes
ah , someone hauls fast .. haha .... right on . then I'm sure he's already bled the brakes long ago..

thank you for answering . .
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by Alvin »

Bikermike runs the KFPs and I don't think he gets any fading on Mtn. runs. He showed me how well they grab...it stops well! Totally stock braking system.

Aidan let's do some mountain run testing this weekend!
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by spyder »

I installed the stainless braided brake lines that I bought years ago. I noticed that the pedals were stiffer. A few years back I also installed the vented Volvo mod and have not since experienced brake fade. Changed to DOT 5 synthetic back in the early '90s.
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by redroadster »

How glazed are the rotors ?
Mine are brakes ae. driveable but turning would rust them
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by AidanDawn2000 »

SLOroadster wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:32 pm If the pedal stays firm, but the car doesn't stop, its your pads. If the pedal goes soft, there is an issue with the brakes themselves.
I've defiantly got the latter. Fluid flush and new lines sound like a good starting point for me but if you happen on a good pad to upgrade to I would be interested!
Gregs672000 wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:21 pm I remember the day that Dave Premo showed me what my Roadster could do in a corner and at speed as we blasted down from one of the hill runs at Shasta. We got to the bottom and there was a set of railroad tracks there so he went to slow down... ah, no... car no stopee! Fade fade fade. While my stock brakes were never good examples of Roadster brakes, that was the day I decided to upgrade my brakes to the vented Maxima rotors and the Toyota 4runner calipers (BTW, NOT a bolt on for those interested). Never faded since (at least the car... :mrgreen:).
Classic Premo :lol:
redroadster wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 11:54 am How glazed are the rotors ?
Mine are brakes ae. driveable but turning would rust them
Not sure what you mean but I'll go give them a look
Alvin wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:00 am Aidan let's do some mountain run testing this weekend!
Sounds like an excellent idea to me! Weather might not be the best for us no topers tho
Oil a little low? Time to get a longer dipstick:)
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by SLOroadster »

AidanDawn2000 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:58 pm
SLOroadster wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:32 pm If the pedal stays firm, but the car doesn't stop, its your pads. If the pedal goes soft, there is an issue with the brakes themselves.
I've defiantly got the latter. Fluid flush and new lines sound like a good starting point for me but if you happen on a good pad to upgrade to I would be interested!
Ok, it sounds like there could be a sticking caliper, or air in the system, or you are getting pad knockback. I ran into the sticking caliper issue with the #44 car I raced at Monterey this year. I ended up pulling the pads, and pumping the pedal slowly till I saw the pistons start to move. (Not the ideal way to go, but when you are in a pinch, and don't have air pressure at your disposal you get creative.) There could be air in the system, but then I'd guess you would have a soft pedal that just got softer. You might bleed the master cylinder. That might be where you have the air. If you are getting pad knock back, first off, why? One of the tell tails of knock back is that the first pump of the brakes is soft but after that they are firm. Since the rotors are fixed, knock back on a roadster is rare. (Something will have to be lose.)

Any way you look at it, there is something not right. The other possibility is that your pads are worn to the point that the pistons are bottomed out in the caliper and can't put any more pressure on the pad. (If you look in the calipers the pistons travel in a groove that will limit their travel.) This happens with about half the pad left. If you have a look and the piston appears to be extended way out, I'd bet this is actually your issue.

As for pads, as I said before, I don't have a good replacement for the KFPs. I'm super bummed they are now so expensive. EBC does make a set, someone on here tested them. I have not used them however. I'd bet they will be fine for a street use after they bed in.

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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by ppeters914 »

AidanDawn2000 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:58 pm
Alvin wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:00 am Aidan let's do some mountain run testing this weekend!
Sounds like an excellent idea to me! Weather might not be the best for us no topers tho
Simple......just drive faster. 8)
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by ppeters914 »

Hopefully, your front brakes no longer look like they did in 2015:
aidan brake bleed.PNG
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by AidanDawn2000 »

ppeters914 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:52 pm Hopefully, your front brakes no longer look like they did in 2015:

aidan brake bleed.PNG
Haha that was the much rustyer 68 I had (incredible they worked)
Oil a little low? Time to get a longer dipstick:)
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by ppeters914 »

Oh! So all those Instagram pics aren't the same car?

Edit: Just noticed the two cars in your signature. When did you get the '69?
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by C.Costine »

Aiden, another possibility is that you have fluid leaking by your internal seals. I just happen to have mine all apart right now, and we know what a job a little moisture from the fluid can do on the cylinders while these cars sit. You could try opening up the outer seal next to the pads to see if any fluid is making its way out past the cylinder seal and collecting under the outer seal.
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by AidanDawn2000 »

C.Costine wrote: Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:59 am Aiden, another possibility is that you have fluid leaking by your internal seals. I just happen to have mine all apart right now, and we know what a job a little moisture from the fluid can do on the cylinders while these cars sit. You could try opening up the outer seal next to the pads to see if any fluid is making its way out past the cylinder seal and collecting under the outer seal.
Come to think of it this makes sense as I do infrequently have to top up the fluid levle never any visible leaking tho, must be very slow. Still, seems like heat is the factor here as it’s fine until I really get things hot.
Oil a little low? Time to get a longer dipstick:)
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by AidanDawn2000 »

ppeters914 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:18 pm Oh! So all those Instagram pics aren't the same car?

Edit: Just noticed the two cars in your signature. When did you get the '69?
I think two Christmases ago. All thanks to my dear friend Brian Kippen for sending me the Craigslist link an hour after it was posted!

It’s turned out to be a great car and daily driver (around 10,000 miles this year!)

More here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27441&hilit=10440
Oil a little low? Time to get a longer dipstick:)
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by peter »

SLOroadster wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:32 pm If the pedal stays firm, but the car doesn't stop, its your pads. If the pedal goes soft, there is an issue with the brakes themselves.

Yes that is the right KFP part number, but they went from about $100 per set to $200 per set. I'm now looking for a different pad to try. The EBCs might be good for the street, but apparently you need 500 miles of break in before they bed in. Not really a good pad for track use. I've been looking for a p/n for Hawk or Carbotech to try either of those. I'm pretty sure I've heard of Jag E type racers running both, so I'd have to guess there is a part that would fit our cars.

Will
How do you come to that Will?
I have also the EBC yellow pads, and yes they have a grind layer that takes about 50 miles and a 100 miles further the work great.
On the circuit it will go much faster I guess. :wink:

I changed also the brake fluid for EBC BF307 this is a DOT 4 high performance till 300 degr celsius
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Re: Stock brakes: any tips for fade mitigation?

Post by ppeters914 »

AidanDawn2000 wrote: Sat Dec 15, 2018 1:54 pm
ppeters914 wrote: Fri Dec 14, 2018 10:18 pm Oh! So all those Instagram pics aren't the same car?

Edit: Just noticed the two cars in your signature. When did you get the '69?
I think two Christmases ago. All thanks to my dear friend Brian Kippen for sending me the Craigslist link an hour after it was posted!

It’s turned out to be a great car and daily driver (around 10,000 miles this year!)

More here viewtopic.php?f=2&t=27441&hilit=10440
...which means the first three items in the brakes maintenance schedule I posted earlier were done on your '68.

...which means we're back to the condition of your '69 brake system.

- You have a pic of a new clutch master. How's the brake master? It could be leaking internally, too.

- When did you last completely flush the brake fluid?
Pete
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'67 1600 - frame off started in 2014. Now I know why roadster projects take so long. What a stupid idea. :smt021
'66 1600 - parts car
'66 WPL411 ***SOLD***
A couple of Porsches, a RAV4 Hybrid, and a motorcycle
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