1600 Clutch

[jarhead]

OK long clutch post. Been chasing a severe clutch engagement chatter(drive train and rear end is good) and 2nd gear popping out of gear on deceleration problem. So I finally pulled the engine. I got the transmission off and pressure plate/flywheel. Couple questions...


1. chewed up two of the the flywheel bolts. Will Dean's 2L replacements work? Or should should I just go to hardware store?


2. There's plenty of meat on this clutch disc but the wear pattern looks a bit uneven to me. opinions? I was thinking oil fouled before the project but I'm not sure what I should be looking for.

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3. What kind of pressure plate is this? How do I know if it's good? Clutch slippage was never an issue. Would like to limit new parts. The surface looks to have some grime on it. Can I just clean it up?

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4. Flywheel pic below. It seems ok to me. Maybe just resurface? If I get it lightened, how much to remove for stock 1600?

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[JT68]

If it is the original FW-looks like it is -a 66 should have 5/16-24 (SAE) bolts. Hardware store grade 8.
you can probably tell from the heads of the other bolts.

I would certainly replace the disc - would be nuts to re-use that.

Suggest you have the FW and PP surfaced(or replace the PP) since you had a known chatter problem. Chatter is usually because of hot spots
on the FW or PP.

Popping out of gear is likely unrelated. j

[fj20spl311]

"30210" I believe is a 2L pressure plate number. In the old days the 2L had 3 rivets in the little tabs and 4 rivets on the inside. The 1600 had 2 rivets. Yours has 2.
I don't know if that still applies. I am with JT on surface the flywheel and surface or replace the pressure plate. Disc's are very reasonably priced, so no reason to EVER re-use.

[david premo]

The pilot bearing in the crankshaft is been installed a little deep. As for chattering and popping out of gear, they may be related. If you have bearing problems in the transmission, ie they allow excessive shaft movement then that maybe the root of the problem. The input shaft has three bearing to support it.the pilot bearing, the main bearing and a pocket bearing that joins it to the main or “output shaft”. If the bearings are bad the clutch disks fights to center itself and can cause chatter. Also with bad bearings shafts can go out of parallel and result in gears popping out of engagement. That said since you have the engine and transmission out I would inspect the transmission it’s the perfect time.
Dave

[JT68]

If it were popping out of 4th, maybe, but popping out of 2nd is very unlikely to be related to the clutch. 10:1 it is in the trans.
More specifically, if this is a 4-speed, the counter gear is likely in trouble, or the 1st/2nd fork, or the 2nd gear synchro hub assembly is thrashed. If a 5-speed, most likely it has to do with 2nd gear specifically, the 2nd counter gear, 2nd gear asm/hub, or the 1st/2nd fork. Rarely the shift rods or detents, but really rarely.

[jarhead]

One more thing that came up was oil fouling of the clutch from rear main seal. What would I find if that were the case?

Not much, if any, oil leak below the vehicle when I was driving it regularly. Here is a pic of inside the bell housing.

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[fj20spl311]

That black deposit in the bellhousing is clutch dust and engine or transmission gear oil from years of use. You should be able to tell from the smell.
I would check the input shaft for "fresh" oil - strong gear oil smell and clean up the inside deposit.

If you have a rear main seal leak, the oil will be on the engine side of the flywheel. A small weeping of oil at the rear seal is pretty normal

[jarhead]

Thanks for all the input and advice. Much appreciated.

Transmission is a whole other story. Probably need to take it to someone who knows what they're looking at.

[JT68]

I cut my transmission teeth on roadster 4 speeds. 90% of the time, 4-speed woes are all because of the "swinging counter gear" - otherwise just typical bearings/synchros.

Swinging counter gear is an easy fix if you can find the parts-almost anyone can do the repair-easy. -- the needle bearings supporting the counter gear and the support shaft for them die and it allows the gear to run off center. If you fix it now, that my fix your popping out of gear problem. If you have the worn shaft now and continue to drive it, the whole trans will self destruct and be trash. Looks like an early synchro trans , which jives with a 66.

Personally, just my opinion, I would not spend more money on a 4-speed than fixing the counter gear. - no synchros etc.

Also unless you find someone familiar with the actual roadster 4-speed, you will probably pay them a bunch of money for no good reason- they won't have a clue.

Datsunparts or most other vendors probably have the countershaft &needle bearings. j

[jarhead]

I cut my transmission teeth on roadster 4 speeds. 90% of the time, 4-speed woes are all because of the "swinging counter gear" - otherwise just typical bearings/synchros.

Swinging counter gear is an easy fix if you can find the parts-almost anyone can do the repair-easy. -- the needle bearings supporting the counter gear and the support shaft for them die and it allows the gear to run off center. If you fix it now, that my fix your popping out of gear problem. If you have the worn shaft now and continue to drive it, the whole trans will self destruct and be trash. Looks like an early synchro trans , which jives with a 66.

Personally, just my opinion, I would not spend more money on a 4-speed than fixing the counter gear. - no synchros etc.

Also unless you find someone familiar with the actual roadster 4-speed, you will probably pay them a bunch of money for no good reason- they won't have a clue.

Datsunparts or most other vendors probably have the countershaft &needle bearings. j

Thanks for the gentle arm twisting. I’ll give a go with the 4 speed when I get to that point.

Getting back to the clutch. 510 L16 clutch will fit without modification? What about z clutch? Need to lighten and balance flywheel 1lb? I see dean has a relatively inexpensive Daikin 600kg clutch kit. Thoughts? I don’t want to break the bank but at the same time don’t want to have to pull the engine every couple years for my summer driver.

[JT68]

1600's are rough on clutches because everyone revs up the engine to get going-- Its not a torque issue. Z clutch is great but heavier if using the stock FW- that why I build light FW's with the Zed kit. - a great setup -

If you go to the trouble to lighten& balance the stock unit you start to approach the cost of a much better setup. It will however last 2x longer than ANY low cost stock (200mm) option.

If you are trying to do this on a low budget, the 600kg is fine, but not any better than what you have. You can get that 30210 unit surfaced for very little. -looks like it is in good shape and they are decent-.

Most will say to avoid the 510 clutch, but it is like anything else, if you buy a cheap part- well that is what you get and it will last 1 year. If you buy a premium 510 clutch for an L20B they are identical and will last "a while" in the 1600. Depends a lot on how you drive.

[JT68]

I'll look- I may have a used oem 1600 FW with Zed plate for cheap. It was in a car for 10 years (yes, been using them since the 90's - excellent mod). It would already be balanced. J