Was the Solex 44PHH Type S5 ever used on Roadsters?

[JT68]

I agree completely that the "huge" hp gains that some manufacturers make frequently do not show up on the dyno....My friend Steve has noted very often that people come to him and want him to do such n such to a head for example to improve flow. But despite his efforts to educate and help his customer, they often do not want to think systemically, so they end up disappointed when it all comes together and they don't gain what they expect... well, they may have improved flow at the head, but they didn't take into account that the intake manifold has now become the restricting factor in the system and it needs work, and so on and so on. Kinda like healthcare and running the government... gee, who knew it was this complicated?

Yeah exactly ,Steve is a good guy!

One of the points I was trying (not very well) to get across was that the U-solex is a special case. Unlike most Leyland crap, other beater engines, the R16, and certainly L-series, the Datsun Comp/Nissan set up for the U20 is really a well designed induction system- most pale in comparison.

All the things Greg listed are very good to improve on, but the intake manifold, solexes and 67.5 AC are so good, you aren't going to run out of Intake and air capability until well over 200hp. That's why I said the intake and filter box are not very good places to focus your attention in general.

The Bob Studdard d-prod car from 1987-89 dyno'd just over 225 on AV gas with the comp intake and carefully jetted 44's. I was there for the fun!

It my experiance, measurable gains will be minimal by tinkering with the intake and (open style) air filter.

These things will all make much more significant increases:

Make sure the distributor is excellent, advancing and timed right
Make sure the carbs are right and tuned, fix or replace
Make sure all cylinders have good compression or fix
Pick the right cam & cam timing.
Bore it .060 over or more.
Open up the exhaust.
Raise the compression like Greg (and prepare to deal with the new issues from that)
Lighten and stroke it.


Greg, when you have it pulling really well and think you have reached the limit, I would try other camshafts for fun. The cam is absolutely the heart of the engine, and changes to it and the cam timing affect the power and torque curves SIGNIFICANTLY. Totally change the characteristics of the engine for better or for worse. As with most things, going overboard on the cam will lead you down the wrong path of the maze.

If you have done all this stuff and it still isn't pulling hard, go back to the list-- it isn't the comp intake or the 67.5 AC --they have worked far too well on too many engines.

J

cards in the spokes sound would be good.....

[Gregs672000]

Thanks for the info JT. I hear you on the cam... years ago I had a buddy of mine with a Toyota with the 3TC "half-hemi" engine, and he put a stupid cam in it despite our strong recommendations not to... horrible on the street, but once it hit the cam (4500 rpms) it was a freaking rocket. Stop light to stop light it was horrible. After about a year, he swapped back to the stock cam.
Mine is an Isky grind they don't advertise, and was suggested by the son after talking at length with me and the mods to the engine, etc. (What a nice guy!) I think it's the best grind I've had, and I have tried a few, all be it with bad cam timing! I will go find the specs and post them just for fun. It is not as radical as the cam Spyder is running, as I felt this was too much for my engine, driving style and gearing. Soon it will be dyno time. I know what my numbers were before the cam timing change, and I KNOW it's a million times better than it was then. Once we establish where it is, then we'll move it a couple degrees and run her etc until we get max output.
I don't always listen well... Steve kept asking me about cam timing and I kept insisting that things were "stock and fine" and I didn't want to play with something where I might bend a valve if I really screwed up... until we got the real world numbers. Steve just smiled, letting me learn...

[JT68]

Bloody awesome mate. scooped again!

Wife's subaru needs this badly lol.

[Datrock]

Either a stock build or with all the trick parts, I rely on my degree wheel for dialing in the cam, no guessing, Hope I'm not the only one that uses one.

[JT68]

Bill, that is the way it is done. Many do not however.

[Gregs672000]

Either a stock build or with all the trick parts, I rely on my degree wheel for dialing in the cam, no guessing, Hope I'm not the only one that uses one.

Yes, I have instructions from Isky about several different methods, though most are aimed at pushrod V8s. I'm fairly confident of my timing marks on my pully because I had to carefully measure things when we did the crank fired megajolt ignition. That's what allowed me to see that the cam was way off once JT identified the cam timing marks. But again, this is just visual and best guess until I actually do the old degree wheel with the dial indicator on the piston, etc...

[Mike Unger]

The Bob Sharp d-prod car from 1987-89 dyno'd just over 225 on AV gas with the comp intake and carefully jetted 44's. I was there for the fun!

I'd like to hear more details about this car.

[spyder]

The Bob Sharp d-prod car from 1987-89 dyno'd just over 225 on AV gas with the comp intake and carefully jetted 44's. I was there for the fun!

I'd like to hear more details about this car.

So would I. I have not dynoed my car but I did purchase and install a set of 41mm chokes to replace the original 43's and yes, it did have more torque in the lower rpm's but it cut back on the high end power. Went back to the 43's!

[JT68]

Here's some info that I remember, was a long time ago, so I don't recall all the details.

I only saw the car the last 2 years it ran because Bob moved on to a ZCar soon after the runoffs.

As I recall the car was a 67 tub, They had both Datsun comp A-11's probably had some S5's too. I learned most of what I know about engine building from the machinist who also maintained the entire car before he moved on to the Z and factory race engines.

The rear flares were originally steel& bondo, but I think they they switched to fiberglass since I remember duz fasteners back there. the fronts were fiberglass. It said 'Rags' on the front because Bob owned a industrial/clothing manufacturing plant. Just had a flimsey AL ardam.

As i recall it had Koni's on the front and back, which is where I first heard the discussion about the Koni's cavitating on the firm settings after getting hot. Bob described it as the chassis "getting loose" after everything got hot.

Car had a custom made adjustable sway bar. Comp springs.

Brakes were stock except for Tilton dual master and balance bar. Ferodo green pads. (Which don't work when cold). At some point SCCA allowed some upgraded calipers for better safety. There were ducts from the front cowl to the rotors. Pretty sure there were Ferodo shoes on the drums too. No vented rotors at the time.

A big Mallory Capacitive discharge ignition system.

Tilton FW and tilton custom clutch. Ultra close gear set. They didn't like the mid-close as I recall. 4.62 rear mostly, sometimes 4.38 (no 5.13 as I recall) NISSAN LSD, but i think they tried lockers too. I also want to say they mated a Zx 5speed in there somehow because i remember the shifter hole being cut in a different location further back. Only 14" rims were allowed.

I have a few of the cams and heads they used. There was an Isky dual grind. A racer brown and one other I'll have to look up. Valves and retainers were hand machined titanium. Isky springs I'm almost certain.

All the winning engines ran cosworth pistons from Malvern racing right around 13:1or so. Hand made o-rings on the head side on the headgasket fire ring. Big PIA. Always carrillo rods.

Nitrided, knife edged cranks. clearance ground to .010, no more. EVERYTHING was balanced.

Dry sump, custom made pan. External cogbelt drysump pump. Tilton I think. Huge radiator, no Alternator.

I also remember they cut off the counterwights on one U20 crank like the 1600, but it set up a harmonic around 7500-8k that made it useless.

Dumbest thing I ever saw Bob do was rig up a stealth NOX hidden bottle routed through the cooling passage in the intake with some small drilled holes into the ports. Mark told him not to) He was already winning, tested the NOX and immediately blew a HG. That race was over and was the end of that silliness.

I'll add as I remember more. Hope this helps!

[Mike Unger]

OK. I think maybe you meant Bob Stoddard and not Bob Sharp in your earlier message. That would make more sense.

Thanks,

Mike

[JT68]

Yes, typo fixed, I had no direct experience with the Sharp cars. (Grew up 10 minutes away from where Studdard's car was set up and all the great engine work was done)

[2mAn]

Well, I just finished reading this thread and I motion that the thread title be changed to "Intake noises and other hot air issues" This thread got really derailed.

Somewhere in here is some good info... somewhere. I appreciate the first hand experience people shared